Volume 11 Number 20
Produced: Mon Jan 10 21:40:12 1994
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Apikorus and Epicureanism
[Frank Silbermann]
Birkat Hamazon at Seudah Shlishit
[Gedalyah Berger]
Experiences in Israel: January 1-4, 1994
[Harold Gellis]
Gematria
[Alan Cooper and Tamar Frank]
Haftara sources
[Richard Rudy]
Message from your Purim Editor
[Sam Saal]
Retzei and Yaaleh Veyavo
[Israel Botnick]
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From: Frank Silbermann <fs@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 08:51:06 -0500
Subject: Apikorus and Epicureanism
In v.11 n.5 Robert Israel writes (slightly edited):
> In the sense of "someone who rejects the authority of the Torah"
> or "someone who disrespects the Sages", I'd have to agree that there
> were (apikorsim) before Hellenistic times. But the original meaning
> of the word might have been more specific, referring to the Epicurean
> school of philosophy. Epicureans were rationalists who believed in
> a world of atoms and chance, unaffected by the gods, and an ethics
> based on enlightened self-interest.
Epicureanism (the specific Greek philosophy) seems remarkably similar
to the scientific spirit of our age. Have any of our philosophers
(Rambam, Ramban, or others) discussed Epicureanism specifically?
In its pure form the philosophy is clearly incompatible with our beliefs
(hence our use of the word to describe heresy in general), but I wonder
whether any rabbi ever tried to relate Judaism with any specific aspects
of Epicureanism.
Frank Silbermann <fs@...>
Tulane University New Orleans, Louisiana USA
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From: Gedalyah Berger <gberger@...>
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 94 17:43:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Birkat Hamazon at Seudah Shlishit
> 3.What if you say Birkat Hamazon at Seudah Shlishit on Shabbat after
> Tzeit?Do you say Retzei? (I only know of YES answers to this.) If
> the next day (Motzaei Shabbat & Sunday) is Rosh Chodesh, do you also
> say Ya'aleh V'yavo?(I know of YES and NO answers to this.)
>
> Susan Hornstein
You do say Retzei, but there are two different reasons given, with
interesting nafka minot (practical consequences). One reason is that
"aschalta dese`udasa adifa" (the beginning of the meal is more
important); i.e., since you started on Shabbos, you say Retzei. The
other reason is based on tosefes Shabbos (time added on to Shabbos);
since (up to a point) as long as one does not formally end Shabbos, the
kedushah of Shabbos extends to a certain degree, you say Retzei because
it really still is Shabbos. One nafka mina is the Se`udas Purim: if the
Retzei halakhah is because of aschalta dese`udasa, then it would apply to
Purim too and you would say Al Hanissim if your se`udah extended until
after nightfall; if it's because of tosefes, then you would not say Al
Hanissim, because there is no halakhah of tosefes Purim. This is, of
course, very nogea` lema`aseh (actually relevant for practice), because
most people, I think, do finish the Se`udas Purim after nightfall. Ask
your LOR.
Regarding Ya'aleh Veyavo when Rosh Chodesh is on Sunday, I don't know
that much, but I do know that in my shul they pass around more challah
right before Birkas Hamazon so that everyone will have a kezayis (the
amount of bread one must eat in order to be required to say Birkat
Hamazon) after tzeis hakochavim (halachic nighttime), and then they say
Ya`aleh Veyavo.
Gedalyah Berger
Yeshiva College / RIETS
Finals are over!!!
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From: Harold Gellis <gelyc@...>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 16:10:34 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Experiences in Israel: January 1-4, 1994
December 31, 1993 - The very first thing one notices when exiting Ben
Gurion terminal is the unusually warm weather. It is balmy, and almost
summerlike. It has not really rained in the populated parts of Israel
this season and several places have begun to institute the prayers for
drought. The desert areas however, especially around Ein Gedi, have been
inundated with floods, making roads impassible. The fact that the rain
has fallen only on unpopulated areas where it cannot be utilized is a bad
sign.
January 1, 1994 - shabbos - Signs are posted everywhere. On the twentieth
day of Tevet, January 3, an emergency gathering will be held at the Kotel
to protest the government's policy of appeasement which is endangering
Jews all over Israel. A huge sign is posted on the walls outside the
Great Synagogue. It is emergency proclamation calling on Jews worldwide
to institute a day of prayer. An immense gathering of Jews at the
Kotel is called for 3:30 p.m. on monday afternoon. The proclamation is
signed by fifty rabbonim from the hesder yeshivas and chief rabbinates of
Israel: Rabbis Kook; Shaar Yoshuv Cohen; Lior; Waldman; Rabinovich; and
others. A separate sign from the Badatz rabbinate and the Eidah Charedis
also proclaims an emergency gathering at the Kotel on Monday at 3:30
p.m. This proclamation is signed by Rabbi Elyashev, Shlomo Zalman
Auerbach, and the Belzer rebbe. Several signatures are, however,
prominently absent from this proclamation.
January 3 - A couple from moshav matityahu who I have just met are
driving me to the German colony. They make a turn when suddenly they are
stopped by a policeman on a motorcycle who happens to be at the corner.
Apparently, the driver has made an illegal turn. The policeman issues
the driver a ticket despite the driver's protestations that his
infraction was minor. The driver is an American Oleh with 6 children and
very poor. The ticket is for 200 shekels (approximately $75). The same
weekend that this happened, 14 people have been killed in traffic
accidents - a record!
January 4 - The day dawns bright and clear; not a cloud in the sky. At
about 3 p.m., I am driving with the rector of the Jerusalem College of
Technology along Rechov Herzl towards Rechavia. People are streaming
toward the Kotel in masses. The atmosphere is very tense and it feels
like erev Yom Kippur. We park our car near Abu Tor and ascend the steps
towards the old city. The sky has become cloudy and drops begin to fall.
Masses of religious Jews - hesder students, high school kids, chasidim -
are streaming towards the Kotel. We descend toward the plaza of the
Kotel. Policemen and soldiers are deployed all over. Soldiers patrol the
top of the Kotel. A helicopter hovers overhead.
A voice crackles over the loudspeaker. It is the prayer of tehilim. Tens
of thousands of Jews have crowded the plaza before the Kotel, are jammed
along the steps at the entrance to the Kotel plaza, and are massed on the
rooftops of the buildings of the old quarter. Suddenly, the heavens open
up and a there is a torrential rainstorm. It begins to get cold. More
tehilim! I huddle under my raincoat, drenched. Puddles of muddy water
form on the stones below me.
At the end of each chapter of Tehilim, a pair of trumpeteers blow their
trumpets. Is this how it was during the time of the Beis Hamikdash?
Thousand and tens of thousands of Jews are chanting Shma Yisroel. I feel
that the shechina is about to be revealed.
The downpoar has stopped. More prayers and mincha. The loudspeaker
entreats the assembly to accept the yoke of heaven. Maariv!
After two hours, it is done. Masses of Jews attempt to exit via Dung
Gate. It is people gridlock! Almost impossible to move as the throngs of
people attempt to push and rush out of the mass of humanity. A car
attempts to weave through the sea of humanity. It contains the Admor of
Sadegora. An ambulance attempts to pass simultaneously, its sirens wailing.
I make it through the gate but it is impossible to get near the number 1
bus. Instead, we walk. We pass soldiers with machine guns, policemen in
jeeps, and people of all shapes, stripe, and denominations. There are
buses from Jerusalem, Bnei Brak, Netanya, Hadera, Ashdod, Chevron, and
all parts of Israel. We pass a sign draped over a van: Rabin has no
mandate to abandon Jewish lives. After an hour of walking, I am back in
the Kings Hotel. The experience is unforgettable!
I am staying at the Kings Hotel (02-247-133) room 322 if anyone wants to
speak with me about Jewish networking.
Heshy Gellis
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From: Alan Cooper and Tamar Frank <ACOOPER@...>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 10:31:03 -0500
Subject: Gematria
Mechy Frankel's fine posting on gematria raised the level of the
discussion considerably. There is, in fact, no absolute consensus among
scholars concerning the origin of the word. Bacher derived it from
grammateus, which is simply the Greek equivalent of Latin notarius
("stenographer"), the basis for the term notariqon. On the other hand,
Shaul Lieberman derived gematria from geometria, and this interp-
retation was supported in the article in Tarbiz that Mechy mentioned in
passing, by S. Sambursky, Tarbiz 45 (1975/6) 268-71; also in English, in
Journal of Jewish Studies 29 (1978) 35-38. The most important recent
development in the scholarly study of gematria has been the recognition
of how ancient the practice was. (There is some truth to the view of a
previous poster that the Greek name was applied to a hermeneutic
technique that long predated that name.) Those who do not shun such
material would enjoy and profit from the brilliant article by Stephen J.
Lieberman z"l, "A Mesopotamian Background for the So-Called Aggadic
'Measures' of Biblical Hermeneutics?" Hebrew Union College Annual 58
(1987) 157-225. See also Jeffrey H. Tigay, "An Early Technique of
Aggadic Exegesis," in H. Tadmor and M. Weinfeld (eds.), History,
Historiography, and Interpretation (Jerusalem: Magnes, 1984) 169-189.
With good wishes,
Alan Cooper
<acooper@...>
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From: Richard Rudy <r101564@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 14:41:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Haftara sources
As a new (brand new) subscriber, I would first like to briefly note my
amazement and excitement at the exchanges I've read so far. First the
Tora Shebikhtav, then the writing down of the Tora Shebe'al Peh and now
the advent of the Tora Elektronika! :-)
My request is as follows: I currently prepare a weekly class, which I also
fax to several friends, on the weekly Haftara, its association to the
Parasha and related topics.
I am on the hunt for interesting source material for use in research and
preparation. I currently consult the following: Hazon HaMiqra (Jacobson),
Rashi, Radaq, Malbim, Ibn Ezra, R. Mendel Hirsch, Da'at Miqra, The
Literary Guide to the Bible, The Anchor Bible and various yalqutey Midrash.
If anyone can suggest some interesting Mefarshim who comment specifically
on the Haftara or, if not , then on the Nebiim as a whole, I would be most
appreciative.
Also, if anyone can direct me to resources available through the
Interenet, that would be great as well.
thank you in advance.
Richard Rudy
<r101564@...>
212 967 5300 x251
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From: Sam Saal <SSAAL@...>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 11:46:38 -0500
Subject: Message from your Purim Editor
How many sons did Haman have?
Between 11 and 19. In the Megilla we learn that 10 were hung. In Maoz Tzur
we sing that "rov banav", i.e., most of them were hung. That means that 10
is most of, but not all of, Haman's sons.
It is now just about halfway between Chanukah and Purim and I thought that
might be both a good chronological transition as well as an
introduction/reminder. As you already know, I volunteered to be the Purim
editor for mail.jewish. I am accepting submissions of Purim Torah and other
humorous pieces.
I'm also looking for people to collaborate on a Purim Spiel for this year.
In the past, I've collected netnews or mail.jewish articles on what I
considered humorous or ironic topics and have turned them into mini-plays.
So far, I've done one on the ultimate egg cream and one on why Hamentaschen
have four corners, both of which should be available in the mail.jewish
archives. This year the topic relates to M&Ms, clearly a controversial
issue, and could use some help. If you'd like to participate in writing it,
send me email.
Purim is just around the corner so get those cards and letters in quickly.
Sam Saal
<ssaal@...>
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From: <icb@...> (Israel Botnick)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 94 11:13:24 EST
Subject: Retzei and Yaaleh Veyavo
In vol. 10 # 5 Susan Hornstein asked about saying retzei when Seudah
Shlishit goes into the night. This topic is discussed in Shulcan aruch
OC chapter 188. Basically the rule is that when deciding what to add into
Birkat Hamazon we always follow the beginning of the meal. Therefore even
if sunday is Rosh Chodesh (and shabbat isnt) we say only retzei. The
magen avraham adds however, that if a kezais [olives worth] of
bread is eaten after sunset, then both retzei and yaaleh veyavo need to
be said. Since it would be contradictory to say both, he says to say
only yaaleh veyavo and not retzei. (this is a short synopsis of the MA.
He gives a detailed reason of why to choose yaaleh veyavo over retzei).
The best thing in this case is not to eat any bread after sunset.
As far as "Ata Chonantanu", it is supposed to be part of the first prayer
after shabbat even if one said baruch hamavdil or havdala. It can even be
said sunday morning (if one forgot maariv on motzei shabbat and is making
it up on sunday morning).
Israel Botnick
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End of Volume 11 Issue 20
