Volume 23 Number 51
Produced: Thu Mar 21 22:48:31 1996
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
A 'gift' of chametz
[Jeremy Nussbaum]
Baby Announcement
[Jerrold Landau]
Chametz in transit
[Leon M. Metzger]
Chometz that arrives in the mail on Pesach
[Barry Best]
Divorce
[Edwin R Frankel]
Halacha L'Moshe Misinai
[Alan Zaitchik]
Hametz in the mail
[Rafi Stern]
Matza from 5 grains
[Michael J Appel]
Matza from the other 4 grains
[Eliyahu Shiffman]
Matzah in the Beis HaMikdash
[Chaim Schild]
MJ23#50 Non Wheat Matzo
[Gershon Klavan]
New Parents Need Advice on Feeding Infant During Pesach
[Henry and Katherine Hollander]
non-Wheat Matzot
[Steve White]
Perfumes on Pesach
[Sue Korbl]
Siamese twins
[Eli Passow]
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From: <jeremy@...> (Jeremy Nussbaum)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 9:41:58 EST
Subject: Re: A 'gift' of chametz
> From: Josh Wise <jdwise@...>
>...
> On a similar note, as happenned to my family once several years ago, a
> guest that came to our home for seder brought a bottle of wine as a
> token of appreciation. Unfortunately, the guest did not realize that it
> was not Kosher L'Pesach. We subtly put the bottle of wine outside, and
> had in mind not to accept ownership of it.
Surely at worst the wine had corn syrup in it, which is kitnyot and is
not subject to the prohibition of possession on pesach. Or are there
kosher wines that are truly chametz?
Jeremy Nussbaum (<jeremy@...>)
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From: <landau@...> (Jerrold Landau)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 11:30:56 EST
Subject: Baby Announcement
With great gratitude to Hashem, Jerrold and Tzippy Landau announce the
birth of their first child, Rachel Meira Landau, born Adar 21, 5756,
corresponding to March 12, 1996. Imma and Baby are both fine, BH.
Jerrold Landau
[Mazal Tov to the family from the mail-jewish family and from me, your
friendly moderator, who hopes to post such an announcement soon.]
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From: <LMETZGER@...> (Leon M. Metzger)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 12:43:27 cst
Subject: Re: Chametz in transit
The document that authorizes the sale of Chametz for Pesach that is
mailed by Cong. K'hal Adath Jeshurun (A.K.A. "Breuer's") has stated
for many years (including 5756):
I hereby authorize...to sell...as well as other Chometz [sic] that is
in my possession including any goods in transit.....
Chag Kasher v'Sameach
Leon M. Metzger
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From: Barry Best <bbest@...>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 16:05:00 EST
Subject: Chometz that arrives in the mail on Pesach
I seem to remember learning many years ago that one way to effect a
jewish divorce (which specifically requires that the wife legally
acquire the GET (-- writ of divorce --) from the husband or his agent)
when the wife is unwilling, is to throw it in her courtyard. By landing
in her courtyard, the GET is considered legally acquired by her even
though she had no intention of acquiring it and presumably has specific
intent not to acquire it.
Am I mis-remembering this principal, and if I remember it correctly,
what does this imply for Chometz that is delivered right into a home
(e.g., through a mail slot). I would imagine that even with the
specific intent not to acquire it, you would still take ownership.
Perhaps such a case is covered in the Bitul Chometz we recite prior to
Pesach?
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From: <frankele@...> (Edwin R Frankel)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 17:01:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Divorce
>I seem to remember learning many years ago that one way to effect a
>jewish divorce (which specifically requires that the wife legally
>acquire the GET (-- writ of divorce --) from the husband or his agent)
>when the wife is unwilling, is to throw it in her courtyard. By landing
>in her courtyard, the GET is considered legally acquired by her even
>though she had no intention of acquiring it and presumably has specific
>intent not to acquire it.
If I remember my first perek of Gittin properly, I thought the woman had to
actually take physical possession of the divorce document. In the
mishnayot there, in fact, it is through intercepting the document before
reaching her hand that would nullify a divorce proceedings.
Ed Frankel
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From: Alan Zaitchik <ZAITCHIK%<INCDV1@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 15:34:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Halacha L'Moshe Misinai
Micha Berger raises some good questions about "Halacha L'Moshe Misinai."
May I refer you to "How Do We Know That?" by Professor Jay Harris of
Harvard University. This book shows how that expression has been
used to mean many different things by various Rabbinic authorities,
in accordance with their many different approaches to the more
basic questions of "drashot halacha" (deriving laws from Biblical
texts).
/alan
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From: Rafi Stern <iitpr@...>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 08:29:47 PST
Subject: Hametz in the mail
>> I'm sure someone will correct me, but I didn't think an object that
>> someone gives you becomes yours until you actually take posession of it.
>
>A kinyan chatzer (lit.: a transaction of a domain) can occur without the
>knowledge of the owner.
Maybe I'm on the wrong track, but seeing as no-one wants to receive
Hametz on Pesach, is this not a case of "Lo MeHayvim Adam SheLo BeFanav"
and therefore no kinyan?
Rafi Stern
Bet Shemesh
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From: <mappel@...> (Michael J Appel)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 20:06:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Matza from 5 grains
> From: <frisch1@...> (Jonathan Katz)
> I have always found it very interesting that while matza made from any of
> the five grains (wheat, barley, oats, rye, spelt) is acceptable, most matza
> is made only from wheat. Only recently have we even seen the addition of
> "whole wheat" matza.
>
> Which brings me to my question:
> Has anyone ever seen matza from one of the other 5 grains for sale? Does
> anyone know if there is a place in either Boston (where I go to school) or
> Monsey (where I live) where I can buy matza from one of these "unusual"
> grains?
In the guide to Pesach that Rabbi Blumenkrantz publishes each
year. (I don't know where it is from since I don't have a copy on me,
but someone must know what I'm talking about) there was, at least in
last year's edition, an advertisement for Spelt Matzot for those who
could not digest wheat. I would not know where to get the matzot, but
presumably, if you can obtain the guide book, yu can dfind out. However,
I recall that the book mentioned something about Matzot made out of
other grains besides wheat were difficult to make because some of the
methodology is different from that used in making wheat
matzot. Therefore, it was strongly recommended to use wheat matzot,
since only trained individuals know how to make the much more uncommon
other grain matzot.
Michael
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From: Eliyahu Shiffman <RLSHIFF@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:41:10 +200
Subject: Matza from the other 4 grains
Jonathan Katz asks "Has anyone ever seen matza from one of the other
5 grains for sale?"
I understand that oat matza produced in England is brought to Israel
every year for use by those allergic to wheat gluten.
This brings to mind another question that perhaps a botanist on the
list can answer: what's spelt? My standard reference books describe it,
not as a separate grain species, but just another variety of wheat.
Eliyahu Shiffman
Beit Shemesh
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From: <SCHILDH@...> (Chaim Schild)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:10:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Matzah in the Beis HaMikdash
It is well known that the only time chametz was offered in the Beis
HaMikdash was Shavuous (and Todah Offerings)...all the other mincha
offerings were matzah, i.e. unleavened....Did the other laws of Pesach
exist in the Beis HaMikdash year round as well (seeing chametz, kelim
[vessels]\ used for unleavened mincha offerings had to be clean of
chametz, cohanim not having chometz on them) ??
Chaim
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From: Gershon Klavan <klavan@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:56:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: MJ23#50 Non Wheat Matzo
Rumor has it that a certain bakery in Borough Park makes Oat Matzo for
those who are allergic to wheat. (I hear this every year and every year
I forget the name of the bakery.)
I also vaguely remember hearing Rav Schachter once say in shiur (or from
someone else who was in the shiur at the time) that Oats were not one of
the 5 species of grain. The mishna that specifies the 5 species
describes them as: Wheat, Barley, a relative of Wheat, a relative of
Barley and a relative of both. I don't think that Oats are similar
enough to Wheat or Barley.
Has anyone else heard of this or did I just make this all up??
Chag Kasher veSameach
Gershon Klavan
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From: Henry and Katherine Hollander <boychik@...>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 18:45:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: New Parents Need Advice on Feeding Infant During Pesach
My husband and I have an 8 month old daughter who I am going to be separated
from during Pesach due to circumstances beyond my control. Is there such a
thing as Infant Formula that is kosher for passover? Please forgive us in
advance if this request is outside the normal purview of this list, and
reply directly to <boychik@...>
Thanks, Katherine & Henry Hollander
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From: <StevenJ81@...> (Steve White)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 11:36:20 -0500
Subject: Re: non-Wheat Matzot
In #50, Jonathan Katz writes:
>Has anyone ever seen matza from one of the other 5 grains for sale? Does
>anyone know if there is a place in either Boston (where I go to school) or
>Monsey (where I live) where I can buy matza from one of these "unusual"
>grains?
There are matzot made in England from oats. They are matza shmura, and
available in both hand-made and machine-made version. They are produced
by Rabbi Kestenbaum under the supervision of the Manchester Bet Din. I
think they are available in Monsey, but contact Dovid Kesenbaum in
Lakewood, 908/370-8460 for details. I happen to know that stocks of the
(less expensive, relatively speaking) machine matzot are dwindling fast,
though they still have hand-made available (as of two days ago).
A couple of notes. First, we bought it for the first time this year; we
have a young son with eating problems who seems to have a borderline
sensitivity to wheat. We'll let you know if we actually like it. (:-)
Second, this stuff is _expensive_, for several reasons. Apparently the
main reason it is made at all -- that oat is low in gluten -- also makes
oat flour extremely tough to work with for this purpose -- it must be
milled many times. The quantity of oats watched from the time of
harvest for this purpose is small, and the amount of bakery time
reserved is also small. So while it is a G-dsend to those having
trouble fulfilling achilat matza due to wheat or gluten sensitivity,
it's _expensive_ for an experiment.
You should understand that the main reason (other than curiosity, or
simply to do it because one _can_) for people to want a non-wheat matza
is because they are sensitive to wheat, or more likely, sensitive to
gluten. Oats are biologically dissimilar from wheat, and are low in
gluten, so they are a good choice for alternative matza.
Spelt, while perhaps halachically an independent species, is usually
regarded by biologists as a sort of wheat. (I think a separate species,
but same genus.) I gather it is also similar to wheat in terms of
gluten content. So there is little reason for someone to go out of
their way to make and eat spelt matza.
I don't know as much about rye or barley in this regard, though I'm
fairly certain that rye is not considered to be a "low-gluten" grain.
Steve White
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From: Sue Korbl <supa@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 22:37:00 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Perfumes on Pesach
I would like to know if there are any perfumes which are Koher l'Pesach.
I remember that some years ago, to the best of my knowledge, Paris was free
from chametz.
Is this still the case? Are there any others?
Sue Korbl
[Get hold of Rabbi Blumenkranz's book, he always has a list of cosmetics
that are usable on Pesach, I would guess that he includes perfumes as
well. Mod.]
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From: Eli Passow <passow@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 10:47:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Siamese twins
Recent articles in Time and Life magazine discuss the Siamese twins,
Abigail and Brittany Hensel. They have 2 heads, 2 hearts, 1 liver, 2
arms, 2 legs, and 1 set of sexual organs. Question: If these girls were
Jewish, could they marry ? If so, could they marry more than one
man?
Eli Passow
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End of Volume 23 Issue 51
