Volume 28 Number 69 Produced: Thu Jun 10 6:04:47 US/Eastern 1999 Subjects Discussed In This Issue: FAXES and Eggs Born on Shabbath [Russell Hendel] Feet together during Kedusha [Avraham Reiss] T'fillin on Chol Hamoed (6) [Israel Rubin, Roni Grosz, <NJGabbai@...>, Binyomin Segal, Akiva Miller, Michael R. Stein] Yom Tov Sheni Questions [Elie Rosenfeld] Zohar on Tefillin during Chol Hamoed [Ari Kahn] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FAXES and Eggs Born on Shabbath Just a quick note on the FAX ON FRIDAY-RECEIVED ON SHABBAT issue raised in V28n64 and answered in v28n66. This whole topic was discussed in Mail Jewish about 2 years ago. To summarize one point of the thread I cited a discussion I had with Rabbi Avrohom Litvin of Louisville, who introduced me to this topic. After I claimed (like David v28n66) that a fax could be read, Rabbi Litvin reminded me of the concept of NOLAD--lit. BEING BORN. According to Jewish law, e.g. an egg BORN on Shabbath cannot be used on Shabbath even though no Biblical commandment is being broken. We had a long discussion in mail jewish on why exactly eggs cannot be used on Shabbath. One suggested approach is that a BORN EGG has a NEW STATUS--before Shabbath it was part of the chicken, while now it has the STATUS of an EGG (e.g. you can point to it and talk about eating it). In a similar manner--a piece of paper that received a fax message on it on shabbath has achieved a NEW STATUS--it no longer has the status of being a piece of BLANK paper but rather it has the status of a FAX Hence it is "BORN" and should not be read (till after Shabbath). This posting has nostalgically reminded me of some nifty halachic discussions. The talmud actually compares wisdom to wine---they naturally improve with age...who knows maybe we can get a better vintage of discussion on NOLAD this time (it is a challenging task) Russell Jay Hendel; Phd ASA RHendel @ mcs drexel edu Dept of Math and Comp Science Moderator Rashi is Simple http://www.shamash.org/rashi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Avraham Reiss <areiss@...> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:36:25 +0300 Subject: Re: Feet together during Kedusha Regarding the question: "A few years ago, I broached the question of whether anyone has found a source requiring one to keep his feet together while he recites Kaddish. All I've found are sources for the Amidah and for the Kedushah. Would anyone have any sources either way.?" Shmuel Himelstein - I once saw that the idea of keeping one's feet together in Kedusha is to make ourselves as the angels. Angels only have one foot, as in Yechezkel 'Veragleyhem regel Yeshara' (tr: 'and their feet are a straight foot'). The original 'Kadosh Kadosh' of Kedusha is also from Yechezkel, and I think the adjacency is what determined here, i.e. that when saying it one shoud be as the angels. [Note: this addresses Kedusha, but not the question Shmuel asks about Kaddish - Mod.] Avraham Reiss Jerusalem ISRAEL www: <http://www.bis.co.il> email: <areiss@...> <support@bis.co.il> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Israel Rubin <Israel_Rubin@...> Subject: Re: T'fillin on Chol Hamoed Immanuel Burton, at the end of his excellent & thorough discussion of the subject (#66), leaves us with 3 questions, as follows: "(1) If the Remo is generally followed, why do most people follow a different ruling and take their tefillin off before Hallel on Chol Ha'Moed Pesach? (2) If the Mishnah Berurah says that the Sheliach Tzibur should take his tefillin off after Hallel, why does no-one seem to do this? (3) Why do Ashkenazim take their tefillin off before Musaf on Rosh Chodesh if they do not say "Keser" in Kedushah (the Zohar's statement aside)?" In response: 1) The Mishna Berurah (who says to take them off before Hallel) is not disputing the Ramah on his own - he quotes earlier sources including the Mogen Avrohom. Furthermore, this issue is part of the larger issue of whether to wear T'fillin on Chol Hamoed altogether. (The reason given to take off T'fillin before Hallel, is because there are those who say not to put them on altogether.) Whereas the Ramah rules to wear them & make a bracha, most authorities rule that even those who put them on do not make the bracha. Meaning that we give more weight to the opinion that holds not to wear T'fillin then the Ramah did. 2) Immanuel and I must have never crossed paths in shul (on Chol Hamoed at least). I've never seen anyone not do this. 3) This is a question that I believe the Poskim themselves were somewhat unsure about. It may be solely because of the Zohar. On another issue, there was some disagreement expressed (#65) with regards to how many people must be available to listen to Kaddish. The Mishnah Berurah (55:32) says there must be at least 6 (& possibly 9, according to some opinions). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roni Grosz <roni.grosz@...> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 08:59:06 +0200 Subject: Re: T'fillin on Chol Hamoed > Given that the Remo's ruling is a minority minhag, the argument for > taking one's tefillin off before Hallel is that it is following a minhag > different from the one that the congregation is following. However, > this argument is not a very convincing one on the grounds that most > congregations start off with people following different minhogim, namely > whether tefillin are put on in the first place or not. The argument of > being allowed to have these different minhogim is that it is well known > that some people do put on tefillin and that some don't. If that is the > case, then why can't the different minhag of taking tefillin off before > Musaf rather than for Hallel be allowed? BS"D The fact that many congregations start with Tefilin-donners and those who don't on Chol HaMoed doesn't justify this wrong practice. If possible the congregation should make two minyianim, one with and without Tefilin. If this is not done I am afraid that the minority group is transgressing "lo titgodedu" (you should not make separate fractions") although I would not know what to advise them (probably davening without minyian and later joining a minyian to hear Borchu, repetition of Amida, Kedusha, Kriat HaTorah, etc ...) Roni Grosz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <NJGabbai@...> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:45:01 EDT Subject: Re: T'fillin on Chol Hamoed > (1) If the Remo is generally followed, why do most people follow a > different ruling and take their tefillin off before Hallel on Chol > Ha'Moed Pesach? Almost everyone, at least the Ashkenazim , follow that both on Chol HaMoed Pesach and Sukkot (with the exception of the first weekday of Chol HaMoed Pesach), the Tefillin are removed before Hallel. Only on Rosh CHodesh are they removed before musaf. > (2) If the Mishnah Berurah says that the Sheliach Tzibur should take his > tefillin off after Hallel, why does no-one seem to do this? Because the Mishnah Brurah, firstly is the Sefard Minhag, not the Ashkenaz minhag. Secondly, who said that no one disagrees with it. Did you look in the Shulchan Aruch? > (3) Why do Ashkenazim take their tefillin off before Musaf on Rosh > Chodesh if they do not say "Keser" in Kedushah (the Zohar's statement > aside)? I guess because Musaf is a Yom Tov type Shemoneh Esray. Jeff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Binyomin Segal <bsegal@...> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:34:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: T'fillin on Chol Hamoed One further thought for Immanuel Burton and the difference between sukkot and pesach. On chol hamoed sukkot the full hallel is said, which is a clear indication that it is a yom tov. on pesach, only the "half" hallel is said, which is just like rosh chodesh, and thus not a clear indication that it is yom tov. just a thought, personally, i don't wear tefillin at all on chol hamoed binyomin segal <bsegal@...> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Akiva Miller <kgmiller@...> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:33:55 -0400 Subject: T'fillin on Chol Hamoed It has been suggested to remove tefillin on Sukkos prior to Hallel, because the retzua (strap) on the hand would be a chatzitza (interruption) between the hand and the lulav. Why would this justify removing the tefillin entirely? Why not just remove the strap from the hand, and wind it around the lower arm? Having the strap on the hand is certainly NOT an essential part of the mitzva of tefillin, so why are we abandoning it entirely, just because it can't be done with all the frills? The common custom that I have seen, on a normal (non-Chol HaMoed) Monday and Thursday, is that the person who raises the Torah for Hagbah does NOT remove his tefillin entirely. He merely removes the strap from his hand so that he can grasp the Torah better. And then he replaces the strap after the Torah has been put away. Why not do the same on Sukkos? Akiva Miller ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael R. Stein <stein@...> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:25:52 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: T'fillin on Chol Hamoed In Volume 28 Number 66, Immaanuel Burton (<iburton@...>)wrote at length about this question, including the following paragraph: "Everyone also seems to agree that on first weekday day of Chol Ha'Moed Pesach the tefillin are taken off before Musaf on account of the Torah reading being one of the Parshiot in the tefillin, and so it is appropriate to keep one's tefillin on for this reading. This in itself sets a precedent for keeping one's tefillin on during Hallel on Chol Ha'Moed Pesach." I have been spending the year in Strasbourg, which has a minhag of its own (called Nusach Ashkenaz) which has been maintained for hundreds of years. This nusach ashkenaz does not differ in its wording from what we would call nusach ashkenaz in "ashkenazi" shuls in the States, England, or Israel, but there are many customs distinct from those places. Alsace seems to be almost the only place left in the world where this minhag is maintained (there may be a few shuls in Switzerland as well). It was also practiced in certain German communities along the Rhine which no longer exist. It is definitely distinct from the version of the German minhag practiced in modern-day London. There is a book -- perhaps by Prof. Ta Shma of Bar Ilan -- called "Shorshei Minhag Ashkenaz" which discusses this minhag in many details. Until I came here, I never understood what he was talking about. NOW TO THE POINT. The practice here is for the Congregation to remove their t'fillin before Hallel on chol hamo'ed, both Sukkot and Pesach, with a single exception: the day of chol hamo'ed Pesach on which we read "kadesh li". That is, this one day does NOT serve as a precedent for "late" removal of t'fillin on the other days of chol hamo'ed Pesach. Mike Stein ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Elie Rosenfeld <erosenfe@...> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:59:21 -0400 Subject: Yom Tov Sheni Questions [Note: Yom Tov Sheni has been discussed quite extensively in volumes 20 and 23, and the Shavuot question has been dealt with there as well. If someone would review the material there and summarize for the list that would be appreciated. Mod.] A couple of questions came up over Shavuos regarding the basis of Yom Tov Sheni. First, some quick background: All the Biblical holidays - i.e., Pesach (start and end thereof), Shavous, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkos, and Shmini Atzeres - are designated as one-day holidays in the Torah. Originally, when the day of the new moon was declared based on witnesses, the message as to whether the outgoing month had 29 or 30 days didn't reach outside Eretz Yisrael [the land of Israel] until mid-month, so the holidays were kept there for two days out of doubt. Since Rosh Hashanah occurs right at the start of the month, it was kept for two days even in Eretz Yisrael. Today, although we have a fixed Jewish calendar and there is no doubt as to the length of months, we still observe these second days of Yom Tov ["Yom Tov Sheni"] due to the principle of "Minhag Avosenu B'Yadenu" [our forefathers' customs must be perpetuated]. Now for the questions: 1) Why does Yom Tov Sheni apply to Shavous? Its date is not based on any given day of the month, but rather a fixed number of days (50 of course) after the first day of Pesach. Surely by then, the news as to how many days Adar lasted, and thus the "real" day for Pesach, is assumed to have reached everywhere. In fact, it seems that the news about the length of any given month is assumed to have reached everywhere no later that the start of the next month, or else there would be multiple doubts introduced and the need for *three* (or more!) day Yom Tovim. 2) Conversely, was there ever a time that even Yom Kippur was kept for two days outside Eretz Yisrael? Understanding that at a minhag-avosenu level we do not do it today because of the difficulty of fasting for two days, but back when there was a *real* doubt, did people outside of Eretz Yisrael have to do so? (Now *there's* a compelling reason for Aliyah!) Any further analysis that would shed light on these questions would be appreciated. Elie Rosenfeld ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ari Kahn <kahnar@...> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 21:19:13 +0300 Subject: Re: Zohar on Tefillin during Chol Hamoed > Incidentally, the Zohar says that anyone who wears his tefillin during > Musaf is liable to death. The Zohar (Zohar Chadosh Munkotch edition 8a) says that putting Tifilin on Chol Hamoed, is guilty of a death penalty - not only mussof. See the discussion in the Beit Yosef section 31. Also see the fascinating article by the late Professor Yakov Katz reprinted in his "Halacha and Kabbala", where he cites all types of responses to this Zohar -ranging from not making the bracha, to the incredible "compromise" of putting on empty boxes, whereby the wearer could on the one hand not separate himself from the custom, and on the other hand not break the ethic described in the Zohar. Ari Kahn ----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Volume 28 Issue 69