Volume 36 Number 98
Produced: Mon Sep 2 11:19:43 US/Eastern 2002
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
additions to Oleinu (2)
[Shalom Ozarowski, Seth Mandel]
"atah banim shiru lamelech"
[David and Toby Curwin]
Birnbaum Siddur (3)
[Gershon Dubin, David Olivestone, Ben Z. Katz]
Gedusha
[Baruch Merzel]
Perek 3 of Eicha (2)
[Hannah and Daniel Katsman, E Preil]
Tikkun for Torah reading
[Allan Baumgarten]
Two queries
[Meir Possenheimer]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <Shalomoz@...> (Shalom Ozarowski)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 00:44:37 EDT
Subject: Re: additions to Oleinu
<< I said this was ancient nusach Ashk'naz. R. Amram Gaon's siddur was not
Ashk'naz (nebbekh, he was from Bovel ;-) ). And everyone please note that
although there are no p'suqim by R. Amram, there's also no 'Aleinu.>>
yes, you're right of course. i finally did get my hands on a machzor
vitri yesterday, it has about 10 p'sukim following ch. 83. However, the
only one from the 'al tira set' is utzu eitza v'tufar (yeshaya 8:10).
were the others perhaps added/introduced later as Mordechai had
suggested?
also, i noticed that the pasuk which lubavitch adds on ("ach tzadikim
yodu lishmecha yeishvu y'sharim et panecha") shows up separately in M"V,
at the end of a maamar Chaza"l (printed following the p'sukim) which
quotes it as the source for the chasidim harishonim who were "shohin
sha'ah achat" after t'fila (learned from the word 'yeishvu,' that they
'stick around'). i assume this is the source, as it seems a fitting
spot for the pasuk.
>>[On a different note, the aleinu posts reminded me of a funny question that
>>always bothered me: whether to bow at va'anachnu kor'im in the aleinu for
>>r"h musaf...]
>Even on Rosh HaShonon it is only a minhog, and is brought that way by
>acharonim, not a halokho. Were it to be a halokho, you would have to do
>k'ri'ah (on one's knees, but body upright) and then hishtachavaya (full
>prostrate on the group, arms and legs stretched out).
>Seth Mandel
"it is only a minhag"- i assume you mean bowing. but don't we do full
hishtachavaya at chazarat hasha"tz there? [what do you do in the
amida?]
kol tuv
shalom ozarowski
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Seth Mandel <sm@...>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:00:32 -0400
Subject: Re: additions to Oleinu
R. Shalom Ozarowski wrote: <i finally did get my hands on a machzor vitri
yesterday, it has about 10 p'sukim following ch. 83. However, the only one
from the 'al tira set' is utzu eitza v'tufar (yeshaya 8:10). were the
others perhaps added/introduced later as Mordechai had suggested?>
I believe that there were some variants among the psuqim receited by
different communities, and those are the source of ours (we are not,
after all, descended from the French q'hillos; the French nusakh,
mentioned by the Roqeah and other early rishonim, died out after the
expulsion from France).
<also, i noticed that the pasuk which lubavitch adds on ("ach tzadikim yodu
lishmecha yeishvu y'sharim et panecha") shows up separately in M"V, at the
end of a maamar Chaza"l (printed following the p'sukim) which quotes it as
the source for the chasidim harishonim who were "shohin sha'ah achat" after
t'fila (learned from the word 'yeishvu,' that they 'stick around'). i
assume this is the source, as it seems a fitting spot for the pasuk.>
Lubavitch, like all chasidim, cannot be looked upon as preserving
ancient minhogim not practiced by other communities. You have to
remember that all chasidim were originally regular Ashk'naz Jews, who
_changed_ their minhogim to better follow the S'faradi nuskhaot and
minhogim of the Ari. The pasuk "akh tzaddiqim" etc. appears in the
S'faradi nusakh already in the times of the Rambam (see his nusakh
t'filla) and continued in many/most S'faradi q'hillot until today. The
Ari said it, since he deviated little from nusakh S'farad of his day,
and the Alter Rebbe when researching what could be called "nusakh haAri"
picked it up thence.
<"it is only a minhag"- i assume you mean bowing. but don't we do full
hishtachavaya at chazarat hasha"tz there? [what do you do in the
amida?]>
As I said, it is only a minhog. If it were a halokho, k'ri'ah would
also be required, which is done by none, and many people do qida in
hazarat haShatz (head touching ground, but not full prostration). Were
it a halokho, y'hidim would also have to perform it during their silent
Shmone 'Esrei [SE], but a minhog, of course, cannot violate the halokho
of standing during SE. Originally Sh'lihei Tzibbur also did not bow
during the Hazarat haShatz, since they are considered 'al pi halokho to
be in the middle of SE. It is a late custom for the Shatz to do it (and
was not done before the war in many misnagdish communities, nor in
Germany), and has caused difficulties among aharonim.
Seth Mandel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David and Toby Curwin <tobyndave@...>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:47:35 +0300
Subject: "atah banim shiru lamelech"
There is a popular "Jewish" song out there with the words "atah banim
shiru lamelech".
Does anyone know the origin of the lyrics? Couldn't find them on the Bar
Ilan CD.
David Curwin
Efrat, Israel
<tobyndave@...>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:22:07 GMT
Subject: Birnbaum Siddur
From: Jonathan & Randy Chipman <yonarand@...>
> On the other hand, about the specific issue of "elokeinu velokei
> avoteinu" on yomtov: I can see good reason for its omission.
Birnbaum quotes Rav Yaakov Emden for this correction.
However, the comparison is NOT to Shabbos, but to YT that comes out on
Shabbos. There, the position of the address Elokeinu velokei avoseinu is
precisely the same as on YT of chol, but the address is there for
Shabbos and not for weekday Yom TOv.
Gershon
<gershon.dubin@...>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Olivestone <dmlo@...>
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 20:24:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Birnbaum Siddur
Regarding Dr. Philip Birnbaum, a"h, Rav Yehonatan Chipman (v36, n90) asks:
Or, if someone really wants to research, he no doubt left behind
some of his working notes (assuming he's dead, which I'm not sure we
know for a fact either), or perhaps his children could shed some light
on the subject. (Does anyone know anything about him, when and where he
lived or lives, what he did besides editing the Siddur, etc.?)
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was the editor at Hebrew Publishing
Company in the early 1970s and met with Dr. Birnbaum regularly. His
scholarship was indeed extraordinary, but what you really have to admire
was his command of English, considering the fact that he was not born
here but immigrated to this country as a young man. I seem to remember
him saying that he had earned his doctorate from what was then called
Dropsie College, and he held a position as a Hebrew school principal in
Wilmington, DE, before moving to New York. He lived on the Upper West
Side of Manhattan and davened at The Jewish Center (Rabbis Leo Jung,
Norman Lamm, J.J. Schacter, among others, for those who may not be
familiar with the shul). He never married, and he lived on the royalties
from his books. The only close relative he had was a sister who lived in
Haifa. I did attend his levaya, but I cannot recall what year that was.
David Olivestone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ben Z. Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 08:25:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Birnbaum Siddur
>From: Jonathan & Randy Chipman <yonarand@...>
> Incidentally, to the best of my knowledge Rav Soloveitchik made at
>least one correction to the text of tefillah on the basis of his own
>sevara: namely, to add the word "Yom" to "Shabbat" at the end of the
>middle brakha of Shaharit for Shabbat, so that the word "bo" would agree
>with a masculine noun ("vehanheleinu HaShemelokeinu et yom shabbat
>kodshekha, vayanuhu vo Yisrael...").
I believe he made others as well. I recently attended a simcha
in Boston and davened at his old shule. Being interested in the history
of liturgy and paying attendtion, I noticed several changes and
discussed them with a learned member of the congregation, whose name
escapes me. They are hoping to come out with a siddur "nusach Brisk".
Most liklely at least some of these changes began with the Rav or one of
his forbearers.
Examples of differences that I can recall: There are some other
differences in wording in the birchat hayom section of the Fri. night
amidah, the "yotzrot" of the special sabbaths around Purim and Pesach
are said AFTER the repetition of the amidah. (We were in town for one
of those special shabatot.)
> My favorite correction of Birnbaum's is in the third blessing of
>Birkat Hamazon, where in a footnote (not in the text) he changes
>"kedoshenu" to "gedoshenu" (as in the adjective "gadush," meaning full,
>overflowing), making the phrase into a series of synonyms ("yadkha
>he-mele'ah hepetuha hagedosha vehar'hava..."). Gd's Holiness is
>irrelevant in this particular context.
I have seen some rare editions of the birchat hamazon with
"gedushah": One old hagaddah I saw had it, as well as the new Eidah
birchon. I have been told that the Rav said "gedushah" when he said
birchat hamazon.
> But has anyone tried to read the introduction to his Siddur? I
>don't have my copy handy, but I recall taht he decribes his methodology
>somewhere.
yes he does.
>Or, if someone really wants to research, he no doubt behind
>some of hs working notes (assuming he's dead, which I'm not sure we know
>for a fact either), or perhaps his children could shed some light on the
>subject. (Does anyone know anything about him, when and where he lived
>or lives, what he did besides editing the Siddur, etc.?)
He passed away about 10 years ago. He was a scholar, who
published academic material as well as popular material. He was an
observant Zionist who spoke English, Aramaic and Hebrew equally
fluently. He never married. My father worked with him for a while at
Hebrew Publishing many years ago. I have a friend in Skokie whose
mother was friends with him (they would have him over for shabat, etc.)
Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
Ph 773-880-4187, Fax 773-880-8226
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <BoJoM@...> (Baruch Merzel)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:52:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Gedusha
Rav Yhonatan Chipman writes concerning Paltiel Birnbaum's Siddur
<< My favorite correction of Birnbaum's is in the third blessing of
Birkat Hamazon, where in a footnote (not in the text) he changes
"kedoshenu" to "gedoshenu" (as in the adjective "gadush," meaning full,
overflowing), making the phrase into a series of synonyms ("yadkha
he-mele'ah hepetuha hagedosha vehar'hava..."). Gd's Holiness is
irrelevant in this particular context.>>
This change is not original with Birnabaum. R' Baruch Epstein, Z"L, the
baal "Torah T'mima " was the first to offer this emendation in his sefer
"Baruch She'omar". In the sefer he makes a very convincing case for
this correction . Among other things he states, as Rav Chipman notes,
that G-d's holiness does not fit the context.
I believe that this was one of his concepts that his father, the baal
Aruch Hashulchan would not endorse with out textual proof from earlier
siddurim or other sources, as R' Baruch himself mentions in his book of
memoirs entitled "M'kor Habracha"
Baruch Merzel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Hannah and Daniel Katsman <hannahpt@...>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:58:56 +0200
Subject: Re: Perek 3 of Eicha
My father's special tune for the third perek of Eikha goes back at least to
his father, who learned it in his home town of Mozyr, Byelorussia. I have
used it in my neighborhood shul a few times, but never heard the comment
about "Niggun Amerika'i".
Daniel Katsman
Peth Tikva
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <EMPreil@...> (E Preil)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:48:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Perek 3 of Eicha
The first time I heard it was while SEEDing in Milwaukee in 1977 from
Rabbi Dr. Abraham Twerski, so I assumed (and we all know what Felix
Ungar says about assuming) that it was Chasidish. Imagine my surprise
when, the following year, I heard Rav Pinchas Teitz use the identical
nusach in Elizabeth! Unfortunately, I neglected to ask Rav Teitz the
origin of that nusach; Dr. Twerski later told me he did not know the
origins of the nusach. Anyway, I decided that with such strong legs,
one Chasidish and the other Litvish, it was safe to use, which I have
been doing ever since.
K'siva VaChasima to all,
E. Preil
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Allan Baumgarten <baumg010@...>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:36:58 -0500
Subject: Tikkun for Torah reading
I am studying with my son to prepare him for reading Torah on his bar
mitzvah this fall.
I have seen Tikkun editions (ArtScroll and Simanim) in which the shva na
and qamatz katan are bolded or otherwise distinguished. I have also
heard that there is an edition in which acceptable, alternative stopping
points are noted if you need to add hosafot.
Is there an edition that combines these features? Do readers have other
comments about which editions are especially good?
Best wishes,
Allan Baumgarten
952/925-9121 Fax 952/925-9341
http://www.AllanBaumgarten.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Meir Possenheimer <meir@...>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 02:10:06 +0100
Subject: Two queries
Our Shul, whose founder-members originated in Germany, has the minhag with
regard to the Unesane Tokef that a member of the congregation leads the
recitation of this Tefilloh with the congregation, and only then does the
Sheliach Tzibur repeat the whole.
Is this practice followed anywhere else, and does anyone know of a source?
Also, can anyone explain why the Shalosh Esrai Midos and the Ribonno
Shel Olam are not said on Simchas Torah prior to the Sifrei Torah being
taken out before leining, in contrast to all other Yomim Tovim.
Meir Possenheimer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Volume 36 Issue 98
