Volume 37 Number 99
Produced: Thu Dec 12 23:47:36 US/Eastern 2002
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Charity Obligations
[Carl Singer]
Esrog Tree
[nuss seif]
The Ethicist
[W. Baker]
Genealogy and Moshiach
[Gil Student]
Is Paper Muktzeh?
[David E Cohen]
Mah yofis
[Mordechai]
The Making of a Godol (3)
[Joel Rich, Zev Sero, Normand, Neil]
Oven
[Carl Singer]
Paper and Muktza
[Joel Rich]
Rav Shach's grandchildren
[Mark Steiner]
Science Experiments
[David Yehuda Shabtai]
Sons, si. Servants, no
[Rachel Swirsky]
Tzedaqah Obligations to Street Panhandlers
[Yehuda Landy]
Wallet on Shabbat
[Carl Singer]
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From: <CARLSINGER@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:44:21 -0500
Subject: Charity Obligations
This discussion of tzedukah to a panhandler reawakened a few old
questions.
What is your obligation to an individual who comes to you asking for
tzedukah under the following circumstances:
1 - an intermediary has come in his place (usually someone in the
community is helping out, also to maintain anonymity.)
2 - if the person sends you a letter telling you that he needs help.
3 - if he calls ....
4 - if he is // or is not a member of your community -- specifically,
what is my obligation to an individual (who I don't know) from a distant
community (Israel) who writes me a letter requesting tzedukah.
Kol Tov,
Carl SInger
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From: nuss seif <nusseif@...>
Subject: Esrog Tree
Vicki,
You may get the biggest green bush after several years however in order
to blossom and bear fruit you need the same conditions from where it
came, sunlight, temperature and humidity. Our tree was 40 years old we
have gotten a lot of sap drippings and parasites. Why not try oranges
for starters. Good Luck.
<Nusseif@...>
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From: W. Baker <wbaker@...>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:12:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: The Ethicist
> From: Frank Silbermann <fs@...>
> According to the website, "The Ethicist" opined that giving tzadakah is
> unethical -- because ensuring the welfare of the people is the duty of
> government, and that any money one gives to the poor is money that
> should have been donated to the political struggle.
I have had people tell me this about my chesed work of feeding and
clothing the poor. I was told by one friend that if I run food and
clothing drives and get bread to soup kitchens and food pantries I am
harming the society, as the government should be doing all this.
Although I don't think I am "solving" any problems or curing them, I do
think that the bandaids I apply can enable people to live until the
solutions come along.
Wendy Baker-Crazy food lady at Lincoln Square Synagogue:-)
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From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:55:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Genealogy and Moshiach
Paul W. Ginsburg wrote:
>I have heard that once Moshiach comes all Jews will be gathered in
>Eretz Israel and come before a kohen wearing the Urim v'Tumim.
>Each Jew will discover what tribe they descend from since the stone
>coresponding to their tribe will light up on the Urim v'Tumim.
>
>I have not been able to find a reference in any seforim for this. Does
>anyone know where this can be found? (or if can be found anywhere
>at all?)
See the Mishnah in Eduyot 8:7 and Kiddushin 71a regarding Eliyahu.
Gil Student
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From: David E Cohen <ddcohen@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:14:37 -0500
Subject: Is Paper Muktzeh?
From: Ezriel Krumbein <ezsurf@...>
> The Mishna Berurah in siman 308 sif 1 sif katan 3 says that blank paper
> is muktza because of chisaron kis. Meaning since you would not use it
> for anything other than writing. Since the fax paper was blank bin
> hashmashos, it became muktzah for all of Shabbos.
Although, as our moderator pointed out, it's probably not relevant in
this case anyway (since he was not actually picking up and moving the
paper), it brings up an interesting tangent.
According to http://www.mead.com/ml/docs/facts/history.html, it was not
until the period of 1889-1900 (a time period during which the Mishnah
Berurah was being written) that "economical, mass produced paper became
a reality." Hence, when the Mishnah Berurah chose to include paper on
the list of things that are muktzeh meichamat chisaron kis, this may
have been reflecting the more expensive and scarce nature of paper in
the 19th century.
Nowadays, however, a whole pack full of 200 sheets of paper can be
bought at the nearest store for a dollar. People don't think twice
about using blank paper to make paper airplanes, serve as a bookmark, or
do many other things besides using it to write on.
Does anybody know if any 20th-century posekim have said that blank paper
is no longer considered muktzeh meichamat chisaron kis?
--D.C.
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From: <Phyllostac@...> (Mordechai)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:34:16 EST
Subject: Mah yofis
I would like to know who sings the old Shabbos zemer 'Mah yofis.....'
(on Friday night, I believe) nowadays. It is often printed with the
other standard zemiros, but I don't know if I have ever heard anyone
sing through it in my life - nor say it without singing.
I would be interested to hear contemporary accounts related to it being
sung, etc.
Also, are there any audio recordings of it with any melodies ?
Mordechai
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From: <Joelirich@...> (Joel Rich)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:12:16 -0500
Subject: Re: The Making of a Godol
> The Rambam says (I have to find the source) that every person has
> the ability to be Moshe Rabbeinu. Obviously the Rambam was aware of
> the possuk that states that no one in Israel will be like Moshe. The
> point is if he uses his potential fully he will be like Moshe, but
> Moshe started from a higher level and reached the highest level
> possible, while anyone else will be starting from lower level.
I agree completely but that is not what is being taught in at least some
places. Philosophically the position is that anyone can be a gadol ( in
objective terms) if they want it enough. IMHO this leads to a cognitive
dissonance or low self image if one does not reach that level even if
they've climbed 10 rungs.
KT
Joel Rich
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From: Zev Sero <zev.sero@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:40:48 -0500
Subject: re: The Making of a Godol
<nzion@...> (Yehuda Landy) wrote:
> The Rambam says (I have to find the source) that every person has the
> ability to be Moshe Rabbeinu. Obviously the Rambam was aware of the
> possuk that states that no one in Israel will be like Moshe. The
> point is if he uses his potential fully he will be like Moshe, but Moshe
> started from a higher level and reached the highest level possible,
> while anyone else will be starting from lower level.
Correction: the Torah does *not* say that nobody will ever be like
Moshe, but rather that there will never again be a *prophet* like Moshe;
the Rambam explains that Nevuah and Nevuat Moshe are two completely
different things, that we use the word `nevuah' for what Moshe
experienced only because we haven't really got a word for it (rather
like the way we use words about Hashem, knowing that they aren't really
accurate), and the Torah tells us that not only was Moshe the first
person ever to have this experience, but Hashem will never grant that
experience to anyone again. That's why the Rambam put two separate
items in the 13 ikkarim; we must believe in prophecy, and also in Nevuat
Moshe.
In fact there have been several people who were not only like Moshe but
greater than him in one respect or another. E.g. Shlomo was smarter
than Moshe, R Akiva understood drash better than Moshe, the AriZal
understood Hashem better than Moshe (Moshe knew Hashem from direct
experience, the AriZal knew Him only from books and words, but he
understood more from that learning than Moshe did - as Chazal said, `a
wise person is better than a prophet'), and Moshiach will teach Torah to
Moshe.
Zev Sero
<zsero@...>
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From: Normand, Neil <NormandN@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:33:08 -0500
Subject: RE: The Making of a Godol
The Rambam you are referring to is Hilchot Teshuva Perek 5 Halacha 2.
The Rambam says anyone can be a Tzaddik like Moshe Rabennu, and then
lists other traits. It is clear from reading that Rambam that he is
talking about perfecting one's character, as he says "V'chen Sha'ar Kol
Hadeot" Similiarly with all personality traits. He is not talking about
intellectual achievement, but rather the perfection of one's
personality. See also the Rambam in the 8th perek of Shemona Perakim and
his interpretation of "Hakol Bedei Shamayim Chutz M'yirat Shamayim".
Neil
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From: <CARLSINGER@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:40:40 -0500
Subject: Oven
Many newer ovens have "safety" feature that turns them off after 48
hours -- I believe there are work arounds. Also, from bad experience
that a neighbor of ours had -- electronic (digital) stoves as opposed to
electric (clock timers, etc.) have problem if there's even a brief (1
second) power outage -- all the settings get re-set and so much for your
timebake, etc. Perhaps some have battery back-up.
Carl Singer
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From: <Joelirich@...> (Joel Rich)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:09:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Paper and Muktza
> The Mishna Berurah in siman 308 sif 1 sif katan 2 says that blank paper
> is muktza because of chisaron kis. Meaning since you would not use it
> for anything other than writing. Since the fax paper was blank bin
> hashmashos, it became muktzah for all of Shabbos.
>
> Kol Tov
> Ezriel
Does Chisaron Kis apply today when a sheet of blank paper is just about
worthless in terms of cost.
KT
Joel Rich
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From: Mark Steiner <marksa@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:35:55 +0200
Subject: Re: Rav Shach's grandchildren
Concerning Rav Shach's grandchildren (children of his son; those of
his daughter are hareidi), I'm sorry to say that they are not religious;
it is his son, Ephraim, who could be considered "dati leumi" by some
criteria; in any case he is observant and served in the Army. By the
way, Ephraim Shach told us that his father said to him when he, Ephraim,
stated that he did not want to "remain in learning" (i.e. kolel) that in
that case he HAD to serve in the Army.
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From: David Yehuda Shabtai <dys6@...>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:49:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Science Experiments
I am looking to find various scientific experiments recorded in the
gemarah, or any time in which chazal did not know a fact and went out,
observed nature or experimented to arrive at their conclusions.
So far I have Niddah 30a-b, Bekhorot 45a and Yerushalmi Challah 1:1.
Any help would be appreciated.
David Shabtai
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From: Rachel Swirsky <swirskyr@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:50:57 -0500
Subject: Sons, si. Servants, no
> If your extended family needed food to avoid starvation, would
> *you* give cash to a servant, then send them to another country and hope
> they didn't take the money and run?
Wouldn't it depend on the servant? Avraham was willing to trust the
fate of not only his extended family, but all of the future k'lal
Yisroel to a servant when he sent Eliezer to search out a wife for his
son.
Rachel Swirsky
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From: <nzion@...> (Yehuda Landy)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:11:34 +0200
Subject: Re: Tzedaqah Obligations to Street Panhandlers
> From: David Yehuda Shabtai <dys6@...>
> This raises a clear question firstly and most obviously about
> tzedakah - that if a person is not 'worthy,' or poor enough, to receive
> tzedakah then one accomplishes no mitzvah by doing so. Secondly, it
> raises a question in general, as to how mitzvot are defined by criteria
> that we do not control. I wanted to see what people have seen about
> this sugya and how they think it relates to tzedakah and to mitzvot in
> general.
This is a valid question. The explanation I heard from Rav Yoel Shwartz
shlit"a is as follows. The mitzvah contains two parts the intention and
the act. Chazal tell us that if a person lost money and a poor person
found it, the original owner is credited with the mitzvah of
tzdaka. Although he did not have the intention, but there was an act of
tzdaka. Yirmiyahu was praying the in the event that the people of Anatot
(his town) do not have the intention if giving tzdaka, Hashem should
make sure that the money never goes to tzdaka. In the event that a
person has good intention he will be rewarded for his intention, even is
cases where the act never materialized such as in the case of a
fraudulent beggar.
Yehuda Landy
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From: <CARLSINGER@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 19:15:15 EST
Subject: Re: Wallet on Shabbat
If the wallet contains cash, it is regarded as Basis LeMuktzeh,
and canot be removed from the bed in the normal manner.
If it contains no cash, it is at most a "Keli shemmelachto
leIssur", and one may move it out of the way to clear the bed for
use.
Since one should presume that their wallet does indeed contain (some)
cash, I would suggest treating it as mukkzeh and thus moving it with a
shinui.
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End of Volume 37 Issue 99