Volume 42 Number 06
Produced: Mon Feb 9 21:07:01 US/Eastern 2004
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Do potential spouses really have to tell everything
[Carl Singer]
Eating Contests and Halacha (2)
[D. Vernon, Gershon Dubin]
Idol Worship in other Religions (3)
[Shimon Lebowitz, Gil Student, Ben Katz]
Leningrad Codex (2)
[Stan Tenen, Jonathan Baker]
Praying out Loud (3)
[Akiva Miller, Jack Gross, Martin Stern]
Stock Market and Mashiach
[Perry Zamek]
Teumah and Karbonot
[Martin Stern]
Tzur Mishelo - is this bentching?
[Mark Symons]
What's Jesus?
[Akiva Miller]
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From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 06:09:01 -0500
Subject: Do potential spouses really have to tell everything
Lots of learned responses re: genetics, etc. Let's turn the question
around and get back to "What should potential spouses be looking for."
There are macro, community issues -- frequently these take care of
themselves because in the Shiddach world as shidduchim tend to be within
similar communities / families -- one wouldn't expect a Shiddach "date"
between say a Satmar and a "Y.U." Modern Orthodox. Similarly Satmar /
Lubabitch. (Although I'm sure there are exceptions.) In the "singles
scene" -- people of common interests (libraries or bars) tend to meet
but then exceptions are more frequent as are divorces.
Serendipity can only go so far. And there is limited knowledge
exchanged during dates, especially if those dates involve going to the
airport to watch planes land.
How does one reconcile a home where Shabbos is anticipated and filled
zmiros and many guests vs. a home where Shabbos is rushed into and out
off. Or on a more general issue: A home where disputes are settled with
loud shouting matches vs. a home where a raised voice is never heard.
It seems that there are key home and personality issues that need to be
explored among potential spouses -- a focus on "what to hide" or "what
to disclose" is "necessary but not sufficient"
Carl Singer
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From: D. Vernon <ck872@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:42:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Eating Contests and Halacha
> I don't know if any rabbis have spoken out, but my dear wife certainly
> has. On more than one occasion, as I protested her discarding of
> leftovers, she answered: "Look, it can go in the garbage or it can go in
> your extra-large stomach. You really think the garbage can is the worse
> bal tashchis? I don't think so!"
The intermediate solution of the compost bucket should remove both
(much/all of) the bal tashchis concern, as well as the wifely
unpleasantry.
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From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:38:50 -0500
Subject: Eating Contests and Halacha
From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
<<I don't know if any rabbis have spoken out, but my dear wife certainly
has. On more than one occasion, as I protested her discarding of
leftovers, she answered: "Look, it can go in the garbage or it can go in
your extra-large stomach. You really think the garbage can is the worse
bal tashchis? I don't think so!">>
I heard that Rav Moshe Feinstein told one of his overly large talmidim
the same thing.
Gershon
<gershon.dubin@...>
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From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:04:52 +0200
Subject: Re: Idol Worship in other Religions
> There does not seem to be anything in
> Islamic belief or practice that in any way supports such a claim.
We just learnt of large numbers of moslems at the Hajj in Mecca being
trampled to death during the stone throwing ceremony.
I remember hearing that this ceremony is considered to have grown out of
the "Markulis" idolatry mentioned in the Talmud, whose service was just
that: throwing stones.
Shimon
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From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:56:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Idol Worship in other Religions
Regarding whether Islam is considered idolatry (or, more specifically,
Muslims are considered idolators), see the following sources that affirm
or are concerned for this position:
Ran, Sanhedrin 61b; Ritva, Pesachim 25b; Radbaz, Responsa vol. 4 no.
1163; Tzitz Eliezer vol.1 14 no. 91
Gil Student
<gil_student@...>
www.aishdas.org/student
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From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:25:10 -0600
Subject: Re: Idol Worship in other Religions
Rambam (who knew a thing or two about monotheism) says he carefully
examined Islamic doctrine and declared it to be monotheistic. (can't
cite a source here at work)
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From: Stan Tenen <meru1@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:07:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Leningrad Codex
>From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
>I have a famiscle of the 1971 edition. There are definitely erasure
>marks in it and there are definitely errors. For example PSALM 114 is a
>header for BOTH PSALM 114 and 115 while what we call PSALM 116 is called
>PSALM 115.
The 1971 edition of the Codex is not a facsimile. Its well-known
deficiencies were one of the reasons that a new, true, photographic
facsimile edition was produced in 1998.
Be well.
Best,
Stan
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From: Jonathan Baker <jjbaker@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:01:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Leningrad Codex
From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
> I have a famiscle of the 1971 edition. There are definitely erasure
> marks in it and there are definitely errors. For example PSALM 114 is a
> header for BOTH PSALM 114 and 115 while what we call PSALM 116 is called
> PSALM 115.
> (It wouldnt surprise me if the PSALM numbers were eg added by one of the
> purchasers of the Codex (hence the errors) and not necessarily but the
> original author. But in any event we DO have errors in the text.
> I have never seen anyone comment on this. If anyone knows further things
> on this I would like to know.
The psalm numberings have not always been consistent. The chapter
numberings in general are a relatively recent phenomenon - I have a
facsimile of an incunable commentary on Mishlei that has no chapter
numbers. But Tehillim, being a series of short poems, have had chapter
numbers for much longer.
The Xtians, for instance, call our Ps1 and 2, one psalm. There's a
gemara in Megillah 17b near the bottom (talking about the 9th bracha of
Shmone Esreh) that talks about psalm numberings that are different from
ours, telling us that we say the blessing for wealth in the 9th bracha
because the same theme is in the 9th psalm, but in our books, that's the
10th psalm. Rashi on that passage apparently has a third division,
holding that it's the 8th psalm, although the Masores Hashas tries to
emend that to fit our numbering.
jon baker <jjbaker@...> <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker> -
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From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:26:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Praying out Loud
Mark Symons asks the source for <<< you should say the silent amida loud
enough for you to hear your own voice >>>
Try Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 18:6.
<<< (though it doesn't specify whether whispering satisfies that
criterion) >>>
That depends on the definition of "whispering". The way it is phrased in
the full Shulchan Aruch (101:2) is "One should not pray solely in his
heart, but pronounce the words through his lips and make his ears hear
it quietly, and not make his voice heard." The Mishna Brurah (101:5)
says that "if he said it so quietly that even his own ears didn't hear
it, it's still good enough, provided that it did go out through his
lips." I take this to mean that it is *not* sufficient to merely move
one's lips, unless he is also exhaling at the same time.
Meir asked <<< My rabbi gave me the impression that one should say
mourners and yahrtseit Kaddish so that a minyan's worth of men can hear
it. Did I understand correctly? >>>
Yes. When a person says Kaddish, he causes the others to respond "Yhay
Shmay Rabbah..." That response is actually the whole point of the
Kaddish, and when one causes the others to respond, *that* is the mitzva
which accrues merit for the deceased. If one says Kaddish too quietly
for others to hear, he has missed the whole point.
Akiva Miller
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From: Jack Gross <ibijbgross2@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:44:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Praying out Loud
>From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
>As regards Shema one is supposed to say it so that one's ears hear what
>one's mouth utters but not necessarily the ears of one's
>neighbour. It is only with regard to shemonei esrei that there is a
>definite prohibition on others hearing what one says.
-- or perhaps everyone should daven out loud.
There is a midrash which interprets the penultimate verse of Shir =
HaShirim ("chaverim makshivim l'kolech...") as praising the practice of
= reciting the Sh'ma aloud in unison -- and calls to task those who
recite = it aloud but cacophonously. The idea that a cong. would all
recite = Sh'ma in a whisper apparently was quite foreign to the author's
= experience.
(Visit your local Yemenite shtibbel to see this in practice. Cf. first
= item in Ramban's Chiddushim on Berachos.)
Glossary:
* Berachos - first tractate of Talmud
* Chiddushim - collected novellae
* Midrash - exegetic collection
* Ramban - R' Moshe ben Nachman, Spain, 14th century?
* Sh'ma - central recitation of morning & evening service: Deut 6:4ff, =
11:13ff, Num 15:37ff
* Shir HaShirim - Song of Songs
* Shtibbel - roughly, a store-front congregation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:18:36 +0000
Subject: Re: Praying out Loud
on 3/2/04 10:24 am, Meir <meirman@...> wrote:
> My rabbi gave me the impression that one should say mourners and
> yahrtseit Kaddish so that a minyan's worth of men can hear it. Did I
> understand correctly?
This is obvious and the same would apply to any other davar
shebikdushah, including the sheliach tsibbur when he repeats the
shemonei esrei. I was under the impression that we were not discussing
such situations but, rather, whether a private individual davenning for
himself should be audible to others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Perry Zamek <perryza@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:27:50 +0200
Subject: RE: Stock Market and Mashiach
Michael Kahn wrote:
> >Might Tupperware be a good stock to buy as investment?
>Will there be a stock market when mashiach comes? Will you care about
>profit anymore?
I should hope we will.
IIRC, Rambam writes: "There is no difference between Olam Hazeh [the
present world] and Yemot HaMashiach [the days of the Mashiach] except
only for our subservience to the nations [Shibud Malchuyot]".
In other words, we will still go about our normal lives, albeit with a
true Jewish leadership in place in Eretz Yisrael. (Certain halachot will
return to being d'oraitha, but that's a separate thread.)
Looking forward to those days (and considering the investment in
non-Tumah goods),
Perry Zamek
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:26:32 +0000
Subject: Re: Teumah and Karbonot
on 3/2/04 10:44 am, Ed Ehrlich <eehrlich@...> wrote:
> After the Temple is rebuilt it will be necessary to work out
> arrangements for all meat to pass through the Temple in order for the
> sacrifices to be correctly performed, but once that is done and the
> meat is delivered from the Temple for general distribution, there
> would no longer be any general need to be concerned about "teumah".
> Is my understanding correct, partially correct or totally wrong?
This is totally incorrect since the parts of shelamim and other sacrifices
which are eaten by the owners, which they may only do within the walls of
Yerushalayim, can only be eaten by those who are tahor.
Martin Stern
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From: Mark Symons <msymons@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:51:39 +1100
Subject: RE: Tzur Mishelo - is this bentching?
Looking at the meaning of the words, it seems to be a CALL to bentch,
and an expression of INTENTION to bentch and thus an introduction to
bentching, rather than actually constituting bentching, eg ...BARCHU
(bless) emunai...; ...al ken NODEH (therefore we will thank His
name)...; B'shir v'kol todah N'VARECH (we will bless)...; the stanzas
RACHEM and YIBANEH seem to be a summary of the 3rd bracha, but which is
basically a request rather than thanks, and they leave out what would
seem to me the key bentching component ie the concluding bracha (which
is the case for the preceeding stanzas also).
Mark Symons
Melbourne, Australia
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From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:06:54 -0500
Subject: Re: What's Jesus?
Tzvi Stein asked about his kids -- <<< So now I'm put into the position
of having to answer the question "What's 'Jesus'?". ... Do I give him a
mini-seminar on the Christian concept of the Trinity ... Do I just
dismiss it as "goyishe avodah zara" and risk embarassment the next time
he hears the word again in public and immdidately spouts "goyishe avoda
zara!"? Is there some middle ground? >>>
Here's the middle ground that I taught to my kids: He was a man who
lived a long time ago. Other people believed that he was a god, and
started davening to him, and they made a whole religion out of it. We
don't believe that, because a person *can't* be HaShem, and it's sad
that they do, but that's the way it is.
It's not detailed, but it is complete and accurate (from our point of
view), and gives the kids a sense that that the Christians are mistaken
but sincere, which should prevent such embarassing situations. And it
worked well for my kids.
Akiva Miller
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End of Volume 42 Issue 6
