Volume 51 Number 73 Produced: Sun Mar 26 10:51:01 EST 2006 Subjects Discussed In This Issue: Aguna question (2) [Freda B Birnbaum, Shoshana L. Boublil] Can an Agunah Sue? (2) [Frank Silbermann, Baruch C. Cohen] R. Agushewitz' legacy [Mark Steiner] Second Day of Yom Tov revisited [Richard Fiedler] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:32:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Aguna question In MJ v51n70, Martin Stern asks: > If he had given her a get because he was ordered to do so by the > Illinois Supreme Court, would it not be a get me'useh (forced get) and > thereby invalid? His death saved her from the resulting problems. It seems to me that giving a get under these circumstances IS making a free choice: to give the get rather than to go to jail for contempt of court. I'm reminded of a saying I've heard: "God don't like ugly". I would like to know why some of us are in such a hurry to question the legitimacy of a get as described above, and not in such a hurry as to question why so many women are left agunot for no good reason at all, and to push for and support solutions to this problem. Freda Birnbaum, <fbb6@...> "Call on God, but row away from the rocks" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shoshana L. Boublil <toramada@...> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:41:38 +0200 Subject: Re: Aguna question > From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...> > If he had given her a get because he was ordered to do so by the > Illinois Supreme Court, would it not be a get me'useh (forced get) and > thereby invalid? His death saved her from the resulting problems. Allow me to further simplify matters: If there is such a thing as "Kefiyat Get" -- how come every time an idea to force a Get comes up-- the immediate response is "but won't this be a Get Me'Useh"?? Chazal stated things brilliantly: in the case where they paskened for a kefiyat Get, the wife was going to go free. The husband just had to decide whether he would be alive or dead at the end of the process... In the case in question (and in another one I personally know of) -- the widow inherited everything he refused to give her when he was alive.... Shoshana L. Boublil ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Silbermann <fs@...> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:50:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Can an Agunah Sue? Even if it is a violation of separation between church and state for a secular court to order that a Get be given, and even if such a Get is invalid due to being forced, I don't see any reason the woman couldn't sue for a larger amount of money, just as in any case of civil liability. With respect to putting the promise to pay in the Ketuba, Martin Stern writes: > Surely the problem basically is asmachta, where a person makes a > promise to pay something in circumstances which he does not really > believe will arise, similar to gambling debts which cannot be > collected in Beth Din because the person never really believed he > would lose the game. That applies to the Ketuba, and having a Bet Din require payment. It would not apply to the civil court awarding a large financial penalty each month a Get is delayed. Nor is that a forced Get, because the husband has the option of paying. (Especially as compared with the Rambam which permits a Beth Din to beat the husband until he voluntarily chooses to give the Get.) Frank Silbermann Memphis, Tennessee ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <azqbng@...> (Baruch C. Cohen) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:53:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Can an Agunah Sue? I want to share with your readership a clever idea on how to use the bankruptcy courts as a litigation tool on behalf of Agunas to help them obtain their get. It might not apply to all Agunos, but to the extent it might apply to even one, it's worth considering. Imagine that the Wife ("W") is owed money in court ordered spousal support, and her 2 children ("A") and ("B") are owed money in court ordered child support, and W's recalcitrant husband ("H") refuses the monetary support and refuses to give a get. Let's say, even further, that H has a girlfriend who he flaunts around town who H showers with gifts - monies that otherwise would go to pay the arrears in spousal and child support. What can W do? She can consider forcing H into an involuntary bankruptcy. 11 USC Section 303 provides that a debtor can be forced into a bankruptcy proceeding against his will, so long as there are 3 petitioning creditors whose debts are liquidated and not disputed, who are owed in the aggregate approximately $10,000.00. Here, in our hypothetical scenario, we have 3 creditors: W's spousal support, A + B's child support, whose debts are not being paid by H. W + A + B = 3 petitioning creditors (assuming that they are owed in the aggregate at least $10,000.00). Once forced into bankruptcy, the 3 petitioning creditors (W, A, B) can file fraudulent conveyance lawsuits pursuant to 11 USC Section 548 against the trophy girlfriend for the recovery of estate gifts/monies that were wrongfully transferred by H to the girlfriend within a year (or more) of the bankruptcy filing. The bankruptcy stay could also freeze H's estate, and he could be barred by court order from any further transfers. The involuntary bankruptcy against H could give the 3 petitioning creditors additional rights to H's estate. A competent bankruptcy litigator must be consulted - because there is a substantial penalty if the involuntary is reversed by the court. As this proposed legal proceeding could have the effect of effectuating financial ruin on the dead-beat H, and his girlfriend will not be pleased being the target of a fedewral lawsuit, it might cause him to run quickly to settle the spousal and child support issues, to also settle the fraudulent conveyance actions against his girlfriend, and in the process, could be enough pressure to cause him to settle the get issue. In my opinion, it's an option worth pursuing and looking into. Baruch C. Cohen, Esq. Law Office of Baruch C. Cohen, APLC, Los Angeles, CA 90010 e-mail: <azqbng@...> or azqbng@yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Steiner <marksa@...> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:10:57 +0200 Subject: RE: R. Agushewitz' legacy Dr. Ben Katz wrote: > It is wonderful to read about an autodidact and a talmid chacham who was > also a social activist AND interested in secular knowledge. He goes on to criticize contemporary rabbis who fall far short of this standard. On this, after thanking Dr. Katz for his kind words, I would like to make two comments: 1. After working on R. Agushewitz' legacy, and looking at his Bi'ur Reuven on Bava Kamma, I see that the man was a giant. It is very hard to follow in the footsteps of a giant. As I wrote, for example, autodidacts are usually phonies (in my experience). Whatever the spiritual dangers of attending today's universities, there is one thing that one gets at a university that it's hard to replicate anywhere else: criticism of one's own ideas, particularly of one's WRITTEN ideas. That an autodidact like R. Agushewitz, z"l, was able to subject his ideas to SELF criticism, is unheard of. 2. Dr. Katz' description of R. Agushewitz does not get, IMHO, to the heart of the matter. He thought, but really thought, he was only being ONE thing, not four things: a good Jew. This sounds corny, but I am working now on another one of his works, "Printsipn," or Principles of Philosophy. This book is written for the average layman (who reads Yiddish), and contains the most eloquent and impassioned arguments for the unity of the religious with the philosophical life since Maimonides. You can see that he is really expressing his deepest beliefs, and not empty slogans, "words that come from the heart." Although I have not finished polishing up this material, and would ask the readers not to forward it in its present form, I can't resist passing on words which make a very deep impression on me. After arguing that the finest characteristics of human society (such as justice) cannot be achieved without philosophical contemplation (which diverts the mind from egoist pursuits), Reb Reuven z"l continues: You ask: and where is religion? Is justice, then, not demanded in the name of religion? And hasn't religion had more of an influence on the masses than philosophy? True. You forget, however, that religion by itself demanded justice in the name of a philosophical principle. Justice is, in fact, one of "the things which, even if they were not written, they should in any case be written" {Tr. Yoma 67b, I have translated from the Hebrew original}. And "the rule of law" [Heb. dinim] is, in fact, one of the Seven Commandments which were valid even before the giving of the Torah on Mount Sinai. As far as justice is concerned, just as in the case of many other principles of morality, religion merely endorsed the demands of philosophy-better said, the demands of religion's own philosophical element. Because the truth is that religion is, more than anything else, also philosophy. Its telos is to come into contact with the highest principle of Being. There is no real distinction between true religion and full-fledged [folshtendiger] philosophy. The element of faith in religion is only to make the philosophy more available [laykhter tsum hand], just as tin is commingled with gold in order that the gold be more easily handled. Faith without philosophy is pure tin. It loses entirely the golden shine, the enthusiasm and the consciousness with which one serves G-d out of love, "My soul thirsts for thee" {Tr. Psalm 63:2}. When one toils only for rewards, one does only what one must, and one continually calculates how to throw off the obligation. Such calculations are quite numerous, you can rely on the Mind, the great calculator; he is employed by the Ego. This is the reason for the incompatibility between the naive faith and irreligious practice of the ignorant masses. One the one hand, they are superstitious to the bone, but on the other hand, they tell outrageous falsehoods [ligns oyf vos di velt shteyt], without being afraid at all of violating an explicit imperative of the Torah, "Keep distant from falsehood" (Exodus 23). Our Sages surely said in truth, "The ignoramus cannot fear sin, nor can the unlettered be pious." I think this speaks for itself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Fiedler <richardfiedler@...> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:04:18 +0200 Subject: Second Day of Yom Tov revisited The Mishna states that the Month of Elul is 29 days. Rosh HaShanah (19b): From the days of Ezra and onward we never found Elul to be full. The importance of this issue is simple because if one knows when Rosh HaShanah begins ones knows when to make the Yom Kippur fast. The Yerushalmi Rosh Hashana(1:4) and Challah (1:1): There, they are concerned and observe the fast of Yom Kippur for two days. Rav Chisdah asked them, "Why are you concerned over such a far-fetched possibility? One can safely assume that the court is not negligent in this regard." The commentary Birkat Yisrael to the Yerushalmi explains the passage as follows: "There" refers to Babylon. Some Jews in Babylon treated Yom Kippur like any other holiday and observed it for two days. Rav Chisdah said there is no need for this. The reason is as follows: It almost never occured that the month of Elul lasted 30 days. And if it would last 30 days the court that determines the calendar would certainly notify the Jews in Babylon about this extraordinary event. It follows that there is no real doubt about when the first day of Tishrei was determined by the court in Israel, and the Jews in Babylon need not add a day for the observance of Yom Kippur because of doubts about the calendar. Since in fact more than 50% of the time if witnesses are used Elul would have been declared 30 days obviously the Calendrical Court is maneuvering the start of the month of Tishrei by always using 29 days as the length of the month of Elul. All of this helps us better understand the issue between Rabban Gamiel and R' Yehoshua. For R' Yehoshua it was certain that Elul should have been 30 days. Yet Rabban Gamiel insists on using ostensibly false witnesses to establish Elul at 29 days fulfilling the promise of Rav Chisdah and the Mishna and preventing the people in Babylon from fasting on the wrong day. Rosh HaShanah (25a): [R' Akiba] Said to him: Indeed it states YOU, YOU, YOU - Three times. You in error, You deliberately, You misled! Whatever date we observe the Yom Tovim here in Eretz Yisrael ipso-facto is the correct date. Beitzah 4b: Be careful to keep the custom of your ancestors because a time may come when there are anti-religious persecutions, and all will be confused. Certainly from the time that this was proclaimed there have been many persecutions yet none of them, even the Holocaust confused us. The Rambam relates the calendar to the Jews living in Eretz Yisrael. But what would happen if there was no Jews at all living in Eretz Yisrael? I believe the calendar would become undefined. The admonition of the Gemora is to keep the custom of Yom Tov Sheni because perhaps Eretz Yisrael will not exist. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Volume 51 Issue 73