Volume 52 Number 81
Produced: Wed Sep 27 6:44:49 EDT 2006
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
God's Punishment Pals
[Jonathan Baker]
Hausman/Stern Kinus Teshuva Lecture 9/27/06, 8PM
[Lectures]
Joseph
[David Riceman]
Mechila
[Ari Trachtenberg]
Monsey Meat Debacle plays out on Erev Rosh Hashana
[Robert A. Book]
Niggunim (2)
[<Smwise3@...>, Michael Kopinsky]
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From: Jonathan Baker <jjbaker@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:38:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: God's Punishment Pals
From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman)
> Let's see, according to some people, as the result of one minuvel who
> ripped off a community so he could make money on Mafia meat, (and from
> what we journalists were later told, he isn't the only one buying loose
> chicken that fell off a truck, and he wouldn't be the first to do so)
> G-d sent him to punish an entire community who deserved it because
> otherwise G-d would not have sent the sinner to victimize the community.
> Finally a rabbi said that the sin the community deserved to be punished
> for was that someone was talking loshen hora about ultra frum haredim so
> they deserved it. AND THE MINUVEL IS NOW G-d's partner, essentially
> hired to "punish" the Jews. Sound familiar? Almost like G-d punished
> the Jews with the Holocaust--where Hitler is G-d's buddy who carries out
> the punishment.
Much as I loathe the theory that the Holocaust was God's punishment on
the Jews for creating Reform (so why did Germans have years to get out,
while still-mostly-frum Poland and Hungary took the brunt of the punish-
ment? - would seem to indicate that God *favored* the Reform, since more
of them were given a chance to flee, over the Orthodox), there is a
point here.
We're going to read Yonah on Yom Kippur, right? Why was Yonah so upset
about giving Tochacha to Nineveh? Capital of Assyria? Because in doing
so, he gave Nineveh merits, raising them up to be fit servants to punish
the Jews in exiling the Northern Kingdom. Look, these non-Jewish
Assyrians listened to Yonah and did teshuvah, while the Jews were
ignoring prophets right and left.
So the Assyrians were made into God's righteous punishment pals.
Compare to our menuval - he did tons of Torah & mitzvos, he wasn't even
machti es harabim, as long as his mashgiach didn't see anything wrong,
but he brings punishment on all these people for eating the food which
he sold AS APPROVED KOSHER.
name: jon baker web: http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker
address: <jjbaker@...> blog: http://thanbook.blogspot.com
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From: Lectures <Lectures@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:06:24 -0400
Subject: Hausman/Stern Kinus Teshuva Lecture 9/27/06, 8PM
Twenty-Second Annual
Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary
Hausman/Stern Kinus Teshuva Lecture
Love and Fear of Hashem:
A Halachic Analysis
Rabbi Zvi Sobolofsky
Rosh Yeshiva at the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary
Wednesday, September 27, 2006
8:00 PM
Live Webcast at WWW.YU.EDU/TORAH
Weissberg Commons-Belfer Hall
Wilf Campus of Yeshiva University
2495 Amsterdam Avenue at 184TH Street
Light Refreshments will be served
Shiur will be in English.
For more information, directions, and parking, please call:
The Max Stern Division of Communal Services / CJF
212-960-5263, or email: <lectures@...>
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From: David Riceman <driceman@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:09:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Joseph
<me>
> I enjoyed the musical(Joseph), but it very much violates the
> spirit of the Biblical story. The Biblical story is about how God
> intervenes in human affairs. God is absent in the musical
<Ira Bauman>
> Actually, G-d is pretty much missing in the Chumash text of the story
> of Yoseph as well. It is only with the commentary of the Rabbis and
> the fact that we learned it first in Yeshiva or Hebrew school that we
> wee it as a religious story.
See Gen. 39:2,3,5,9,21,23; 40:8; 41:25,32,35,36; 42:18, 28 43:14,23,29
44:16 45:5 46:2-4 and the summation in 50:19-20. All the main
characters (including Pharoah and Potiphar) acknowledge that God is
running things.
David Riceman
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From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:02:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Mechila
I would like to ask everyone on the list for forgiveness for any
inappropriate offense I might have provided on the list during the last
year. Please feel free to contact me directly with any specific
offenses.
Thanks,
Ari
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From: Robert A. Book <rbook@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:54:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Monsey Meat Debacle plays out on Erev Rosh Hashana
Jeanette Friedman (<FriedmanJ@...>) writes:
> Let's see, according to some people, as the result of one minuvel who
> ripped off a community so he could make money on Mafia meat,
[...]
> G-d sent him to punish an entire community who deserved it because
> otherwise G-d would not have sent the sinner to victimize the community.
>
> Finally a rabbi said that the sin the community deserved to be punished
> for was that someone was talking loshen hora about ultra frum haredim so
> they deserved it. AND THE MINUVEL IS NOW G-d's partner, essentially
> hired to "punish" the Jews. Sound familiar? Almost like G-d punished
> the Jews with the Holocaust--where Hitler is G-d's buddy who carries out
> the punishment.
It does sound familiar -- it sounds almost like how G-d sent the
Babylonians to destroy the first Beis HaMikdash for the sins of the Jews
of that time (avodah zara, etc.), and how G-d sent the Romans to destroy
the second Beis HaMikdash for the sins of that time (sinnat chinam,
loshon hara, etc. -- or even just the matter of Kamtza and Bar Kamtza).
Or how, according to some interpretations, Haman was sent to punish the
Jews of Shushan for participating in Ahashverosh's party.
I don't pretend to KNOW G-d's intent in this particular case, or any
other particular case, but the idea of G-d using an evil person
(Senacherib, Titus, Haman, etc.) to punish the Jews is not particularly
unprecedented. I don't see how we can confidently exclude the
possibility in this case or the case of the Holocaust.
Robert Book
<rbook@...>
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From: <Smwise3@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:43:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Niggunim
> ...a midrash that every tune that the world would ever hear was sung
> in the Bet Hamikdash
Oh really? They sang hip hop, rap, jazz, show tunes, etc. I would love
to see that Midrash.
S.Wise
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From: Michael Kopinsky <mkopinsky@...>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:43:39 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Re: Niggunim
> Not quite. There are certain time signatures that just won't work; I
> think you need to use something like 4/4, 2/4, or cut time; I can't
> offhand recall hearing any 3/4 or 6/8 tunes for same (but I'm kinda busy
> with pre-holiday preps, so I may be too distracted to recall any). It's
> a pretty safe bet that you're unlikely to hear Shir HaMaalot set to the
> tune of Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" or "Blue Rondo a la Turk".
Actually, one 6/8 tune for Shir Hama'alos comes to mind - Im
Eschkacheich.
Michael Y. Kopinsky
<mkopinsky@...>
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End of Volume 52 Issue 81
