Volume 55 Number 29
Produced: Fri Aug 3 5:23:44 EDT 2007
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Finances and Judaism (2)
[Frank Silbermann, Rabbi Meir Wise]
Hearing Aids
[Anonymous]
Interesting museum piece
[Shmuel Himelstein]
Kashrut
[Harry Weiss]
Stress
[Carl Singer]
Stress and Judaism
[Aliza Berger]
Stress in the Observant Community
[Tzvi Stein]
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From: Frank Silbermann <frank_silbermann@...>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 00:13:23 -0500
Subject: RE: Finances and Judaism
Carl Singer (V55 N28):
> Not to rehash oft told stories about how chickens are "manufactured"
> -- it is impossible to justify the difference in cost between premium
> treif chicken (say Perdue) and premium kosher chicken. Treif has an
> edge on volume but also spends considerably more on advertising,
> kosher has sufficient volume (at least in the large metropolitan
> areas) to have similar economies of scale (for distribution) and the
> cost of schita and proper supervision should not double the production
> & distribution costs.)
Most of the people working in the tref chicken industry earn relatively
little; a good guess would be $15,000 to $30,000 year. Given the cost
of housing near a shul and day school tuition, how many Orthodox Jews do
you expect to work for that kind of money? The stockboy at the local
A&P probably earns $8 per hour; the proprietor who stocks the shelves of
his small kosher shop probably expects (and needs) to earn $100,000 per
year, or maybe twice that.
I don't know what the solution is. I live in a region with a low cost
of living, and I have what gentiles would consider to be a very good
job, yet I feel like one of the poorest members of my community; I rely
heavily on very generous scholarships; and yet I struggle. Thank G-d
our community has some very wealthy people who care about it deeply and
contribute generously.
(And yet, most Jews ask the government to take away rich people's money
-- and their discretion to use it for supporting Orthodox institutions
-- in favor of having it spent by a government that is Constitutionally
prohibited from supporting religion. I wonder what will happen when the
government adds another 15% income tax to pay for health care, and then
I find out that I must pay again for private doctors should the
government then institute medical ethics that contradict halacha.)
Frank Silbermann Memphis, Tennessee
<frank_silbermann@...>
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From: <Meirhwise@...> (Rabbi Meir Wise)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 01:57:04 EDT
Subject: Re: Finances and Judaism
Having worked within the Jewish community in London, both in education
and kashrus all my working life, there is a lot I could say on the
subject. I could probably write a book!
However let me say one thing from personal experience and sure
knowledge. In the Charedi school - they will not turn down a Jewish
child for lack of tuition fees. Hence my own children went through
Pardes House (boys) and Beth Jacob (girls) for minimal payments.
However in the National/Religious/Modern Orthodox camp I know of cases
in my neighbourhood where children have been turned away and ended up in
Church of England primary schools!
As far as the price of kosher food is concerned it is a rip-off and one
should avoid buying it wherever possible. (Reb Moshe said there is no
mitzva to run after hechsherim). I would have thought that in the USA
with the OU certification it should be easier. Apart from the odd
chicken for Shabbat and Yom Tov, we poor Jews survive on fish, fruit and
vegetables and other permitted foods for which we pay the same as the
non-Jews.
It is true that my wife and I did not have a holiday for 20 years and I
still drive a 21 year old beat-up Volvo but Hashem never promised us any
luxuries. With His help our children turned out Torah true Jews (bli
ayin hara).
Rabbi Meir Wise, London
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From: Anonymous
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 08:09:31
Subject: Hearing Aids
This may not seem like an appropriate mail-Jewish topic, but perhaps it
should fall under the category of Shalom Bias.
After years of everyone speaking very loudly (nearly shouting) and the
stress that goes with it, my mother (who lives in our home) finally got
hearing aids. Yes, despite what the "mayven" lady at the JCC said, they
DO work and they have changed her life. She can again hear clearly,
people don't have to shout, etc.
For those list members who are similarly situated, I strongly urge you
to have your parent's hearing evaluated and to act accordingly.
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From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 07:55:42 +0300
Subject: Interesting museum piece
In the Jewish Museum in Budapest there is a scroll of all the Haftarot
obviously hand-written, with the name of theHaftarah preceding each of
them. What I found interesting is that the names of the Haftarot are
written in red ink.
Shmuel Himelstein
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From: Harry Weiss <hjweiss@...>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:46:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Kashrut
From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
> Not to rehash oft told stories about how chickens are "manufactured"
> -- it is impossible to justify the difference in cost between premium
> treif chicken (say Perdue) and premium kosher chicken. Treif has an
> edge on volume but also spends considerably more on advertising,
> kosher has sufficient volume (at least in the large metropolitan
> areas) to have similar economies of scale (for distribution) and the
> cost of schita and proper supervision should not double the production
> & distribution costs.)
There are some justifications in a higher cost for kosher chicken. The
cost of shechta, masghichim, soaking and salting add up. In addition the
cost of plucking feathers is much higher. Kosher production prohibits
the use of hot water in the process. (That also results in more pin
feathers)
The kosher consumer is also paying for the loss in selling chickens that
are found to be treifos at below cost.
There is of course the difference in overhead for a small kosher store
vs. a chain market. Despite being in a small commuity we get chickens
at a reasonable price at Trader Joes which can take advantage of
economies of scale on the Rubashkin chickens they sell.
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From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 07:41:34 -0400
Subject: Stress
> I shop at two supermarkets. One, near my workplace, is an ordinary
> secular supermarket. The other, near my home, is all kosher (Seven
> Mile Market in Baltimore, MD, USA). When I visit the secular
> supermarket midday (taking a work break), I generally see women with
> children shopping. They are, most often, smiling, talking to each
> other, enjoying their kids and pretty relaxed. When I shop in the
> kosher supermarket, I often see mothers who are harried, rushed, and
> tense.
Not to discount your observations and feelings. To do a more accurate
assessment, perhaps you should visit your local kosher store during
lunch break when non-working parents are shopping, and then visit the
secular supermarket after work when working mothers (OK working parents)
are rushing to shop prior to dinner.
Carl
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From: Aliza Berger <alizadov@...>
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 18:04:38 +0300
Subject: Stress and Judaism
Andy writes, regarding finances and Judaism:
> When I shop in the kosher supermarket, I often see mothers who are
> harried, rushed, and tense.
>
> I think that there is definitely more stress in the observant
> community...I see it in myself. My co-workers talk about their
> hobbies, sports, and vacations. They are pretty free most evenings.
> My life style is different, and I am often either tired or
> exhausted… For medical reasons, I really should get regular
> exercise. When? What do I give up? Dovening, shiurim?
In response to the end of Andy's comments -- Yes, perhaps, especially if
your shul has no trouble getting a minyan without you. If you get sick
due to not getting regular exercise, and wind up in the hospital or
dead, you will not be able to attend minyan (synagogue) or shiurim
(classes) anyway, let alone your children's or grandchildren's smahot
(significant life events).
A more general response: I have also thought about, and am curious
about, the idea of stress due to the time requirements (as opposed to
the financial requirements) of an observant lifestyle. How prevalent is
it among members of the list, and what particular requirements do you
think contribute to it? Some reasons I can think of are: because you
have many children, because you cook for large numbers of Shabbat
guests, because you attend a lot of minyanim and shiurim, because you do
a lot of volunteer work. Are you often tired and exhausted, like Andy?
Aliza
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From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:14:03 -0400
Subject: Stress in the Observant Community
From: Goldfinger, Andy <Andy.Goldfinger@...>
> I think that there is definitely more stress in the observant community.
> I see it in myself. My co-workers talk about their hobbies, sports, and
> vacations. They are pretty free most evenings. My life style is
> different, and I am often either tired or exhausted.
>
> I have no answers. We do work harder, but we do it for a reason. We
> consciously choose to be "amalim" (hard workers). I am glad that we do
> this -- but we must admit that it can take a toll on members of the
> community. For medical reasons, I really should get regular exercise.
> When? What do I give up? Dovening, shiurim? Yes -- I do get up early,
> but it is to go to minyan, not to jog. Shouldn't I get up earlier and
> do both? Well -- then how much earlier can I go to bed?
If it's not too personal (and you think it applies to many "observant"
people). Please elaborate on what exactly is taking up every evening
and why you don't have time to exercise. It's absolutely vital for
everyone to exercise regularly but you are even saying you need it for
"medical reasons", so all the more so! If you have actually been told
to exercise for a specific medical reason, and you think you cannot do
so without missing davening or shiurim, I would strongly suggest you
talk to your rabbi about that, to ask if you should actually miss those
things. I would say regular exercise is a case of "pikuach nefesh" even
for a healthy person, and so much more so if you have a health problem
that requires it.
As for hobbies, vacations, free evenings... I have seen "observant"
people that engage in these things. I think they are also very
important and border on "pikuach nefesh". Certainly if you are "always
tired or exhausted", that is a very serious health issue that needs to
be addressed ASAP. I hesitate to be so direct but ... one cannot serve
Hashem while they are sick or ch"v dead. Sacraficing health for a "frum
lifestyle" is, in my opinion, a serious, serious error.
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End of Volume 55 Issue 29
