Volume 55 Number 66
Produced: Thu Sep 6 6:13:20 EDT 2007
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Are You A Manhig Yisrael? A One-Item Test
[David Riceman]
Beis Din deciding Rosh Chodesh
[<chips@...>]
Bnei Nidah
[Shoshana L. Boublil]
Correction
[<trachten@...>]
Da'as Torah
[Shoshana L. Boublil]
Depends on the issue
[Mordechai Horowitz]
Halakhic reasoning vs. reward/punishment calculations (2)
[Mordechai Horowitz, Daniel Wells]
Keeping Mezuzos for the Same Room Exclusively
[Elimelekh Polinsky]
Unwanted "gifts" from Tzedukahs (3)
[David Riceman, Medad, Daniel Geretz]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Riceman <driceman@...>
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 10:24:59 -0400
Subject: Are You A Manhig Yisrael? A One-Item Test
From: Jay F Shachter <jay@...>
> I did a quick mental calculation, in the manner of Tom Swift, except
> that I did not pull out the pocket slide rule, since I no longer carry
> one. To have sexual relations with a Jewish woman who has never gone
> to the miqveh involves both parties in a violation of Leviticus 20:18,
> and subjects both parties to the punishment of "karet". <snip> On the
> other hand, to have sexual relations with a non-Jewish woman is, at
> the very worst, only an "'issur lav".
> <snip>
> "According to Rav Yaaqov Kamenetsky," my colleague Yaaqov Elman,
> yibbadel lxayyim, immediately replied, "you are a talmid xakham, but you
> are not a manhig yisrael".
Is it possible that, in making your calculation, you ignored the
possibility that the reason your hypothetical friend is non-religious is
ignorance rather than malice (see H. Mamrim 3:3 that this applies even
to someone who knows orthodox doctrine). Since, however, you are having
this hypothetical discussion with hypothetical him he must have some
type of Jewish identity. So it may well be that the issur karet doesn't
apply due to his ignorance, but that he is aware that marrying out is a
Very Bad Thing.
The question, in that case, is why your response would be
hypothetically classified as that of a Talmid Hacham.
David Riceman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <chips@...>
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 9:04:38 -0700
Subject: Beis Din deciding Rosh Chodesh
Was the court session when the Eidym came for seeing the New Moon an
open court, available for all to view?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Shoshana L. Boublil <toramada@...>
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:19:39 +0300
Subject: Re: Bnei Nidah
>> The "Steipler" brings down another reason concerning Baalei
>> Teshuva. He claims that the gemara's attitude towards bnei niddah is a
>> generalization. Hence, if the child is baal teshuva it proves that
>> he/she is in the minority who do have not low morals.
>
> Can that statement of Chazal really be regarded as having halachik-type
> status? Doesn't a ben-nida have free will to be moral or not?
First I would like to say that I truly don't like this kind of topic of
discussion. That said here is one answer.
It is recognized that people are born with different abilities and
different talents, and different IQs. Some are born with genius IQ and
some have extremely low IQs.
Similarly, there is a spiritual scale, whereby certain people are born
with higher spiritual talents than others. Ben HaNiddah is considered
flawed in a spiritual way, he starts out with a lower place on the moral
branch of the spiritual talent ladder. [you can see why I don't like
these kinds of discussions!]
In any case, just b/c someone is born a genius doesn't make them a
saviour of mankind, nor does the it mean that the one born with a low IQ
won't accomplish anything. It depends on how much effort and care they
invest in achieving their goals.
So, a Ben Niddah can be with higher moral fiber than a FFB whose mother
kept full hilchot Niddah, b/c the Ben Niddah made it his business to
strengthen his moral character, while this FFB guy didn't, or didn't
invest as much. The assumption is that Ben Niddah has to work harder.
Shoshana L. Boublil
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <trachten@...>
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:04:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Correction
> From: Immanuel Burton <iburton@...>
> Does the God-implemented punishment of karet really require witnesses?
Certainly not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Shoshana L. Boublil <toramada@...>
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:09:31 +0300
Subject: Re: Da'as Torah
> From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
> The faction which has taken over my shul and radically altered its
> character justify their changes by claiming to be based on an anonymous
> "Da'as Torah". Since this term seems to be used rather frequently
> nowadays it has to all intents and purposes been emptied of meaning. Can
> anyone explain how one can tell the genuine article from its many
> purported imitations?
It's really very simple -- true Da'at Torah will have sources to back it
up, and won't fear questions.
The first Mishnah of Pirkei Avot starts with the fact that we didn't
make up the Torah - Hashem gave it and it was passed down faithfully
over the generations until it was written.
Anything that doesn't have a source, is made up and not Judaism.
Any issue that fears questions, is not Talmud, as the duty of a Jew is
to learn, and we know "Lo HaBayShan Lameid" - you can't learn if you
can't ask questions.
So, any idea that has no source, or that the promulgator is unwilling to
face questions, is IMHO, suspect.
If you don't believe me, go to any true Gadol and ask him a question.
He will have no problem not only giving sources, but patiently
addressing all your questions, and discussing your opinions.
Shana Tova
Shoshana L. Boublil
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mordechai Horowitz <mordechai@...>
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:14:40 -0400
Subject: Depends on the issue
> From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
> The faction which has taken over my shul and radically altered its
> character justify their changes by claiming to be based on an anonymous
> "Da'as Torah". Since this term seems to be used rather frequently
> nowadays it has to all intents and purposes been emptied of meaning. Can
> anyone explain how one can tell the genuine article from its many
> purported imitations?
Just curious where is your Rabbi in this issue over what is happening in
your shul. If the issues are halachic in nature he should be the souce
of the Daat Torah in your shul. Any real Daat Torah has a source called
a Rabbi.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mordechai Horowitz <mordechai@...>
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:24:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Halakhic reasoning vs. reward/punishment calculations
I only had two years of yeshiva so most of my Torah comes from either
asking Rabbis or watching what they do.
I've never seen any Rabbi discourage non observant Jews from getting
married. Indeed whether it is Chabad or the Modern Orthodox shul in
town or Charedi Aish HaTorah, one thing they all have in common is
running singles programs to encourage non religious Jews to get married.
While they would obviously love these people to become obervant Balei
Teshuva, they get a lot more singles to marry other Jews than they get
to become frum. So therefore there Rabbonim, from a wide range of Torah
Judaism encourage people to get married knowing they won't follow the
laws of Family Purity. In most of these cases the Rabbi's themselves
will perform the ceremony for these non observant Jews.
So it seems to me to be obvious from a practical point of view the
Rabbi's have decided in our day and time it is acceptable to allow and
even encourage Jews to marry knowing they will violate the law of family
purity.
The real question may be what is their source for the psak, but the
halachic decision appears to be clear.
The opinion Daniel expresses appears to be part of the minority opinion
that opposes Kiruv (outreach to the non observant) in general. Don't
run a Turn Friday Night in Shabbat because people will drive home
afterwards. Don't have a woman as a Shabbos guest if she isn't covering
her hair because you can't bench, shut down NCSY because it has mixed
programs between the genders. While all these opinions do have a
minority opinion to rely upon it isn't normative opinion in the Torah
community.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Daniel Wells <wells@...>
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:09:19 +0300
Subject: Re: Halakhic reasoning vs. reward/punishment calculations
I've never seen any Rabbi discourage non observant Jews from
getting married.
But have you seen an Orthodox rabbi actively encourage a marriage where
the couple blatantly announce that they will not go to the mikvah?
There are non observant Jews that do go to the mikveh, especially here
in Israel where the woman has to go at least the night before the
marriage in ordered to be married by the rabbinate.
Indeed whether it is Chabad or the Modern Orthodox shul in town
or Charedi Aish HaTorah, one thing they all have in common is
running singles programs to encourage non religious Jews to get
married.
to get married? not to get religious?
So it seems to me to be obvious from a practical point of view
the Rabbi's have decided in our day and time it is acceptable to
allow and even encourage Jews to marry knowing they will violate
the law of family purity.
I think there is an unwarranted extrapolation here. Rabbis are there to
encourage mitzva observance and discourage aveiras. But it is not there
job to investigate every couple on there intentions.
The real question may be what is their source for the psak, but
the halachic decision appears to be clear.
Wishful thinking that there is a psak!
The opinion Daniel expresses appears to be part of the minority
opinion that opposes Kiruv (outreach to the non observant) in
general.
That's more extrapolation that has nothing to do with the topic. Any
Kiruv that is not halachically forbidden is obviously welcome
Don't run a Turn Friday Night in Shabbat because people will
drive home afterwards.
If its within walking distance then its not your problem how they arrive
or leave.
Don't have a woman as a Shabbos guest if she isn't covering her
hair because you can't bench,
Who says you have to look at her while bentching.
shut down NCSY because it has mixed programs between the genders.
While it may not be acceptable behavior because of possible sexual
overtures, a mixed group is not halchically forbidden per se.
While all these opinions do have a minority opinion to rely upon
it isn't normative opinion in the Torah community.
Can you explain what is normative?
We have the Conservative movement allowing on Shabbos, the driving to
Shul but forbidding the driving to the football match thus hoping to
engender allegiance to their heritage. What actually happens in many C
homes is that shul is missed and the football or golf gets that
allegiance.
If such allowances were made in orthodoxy, it would have disappeared
from the map centuries ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Elimelekh Polinsky <miltonpo@...>
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:16:37 -0400
Subject: Keeping Mezuzos for the Same Room Exclusively
Does anyone know the basis / origin of the custom to keep mezuzos for
the same room exclusively even after having them checked?
Someone told me that they have the sofer come to their house to check
the mezuzos to make sure the mezuzos do not get mixed up and placed on a
different room.
Elimelekh Polinsky
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Riceman <driceman@...>
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 10:28:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Unwanted "gifts" from Tzedukahs
From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
> QUESTION -- What is my halahic obligation re: the trinkets (calendars,
> labels, New Year's cards, notepads, etc.) enclosed with these mailings?
Don't they have the halachic status of aveidah mida'as (items
deliberately abandoned in the hopes that they be returned), which need
not be returned?
David Riceman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:35:00 +0300
Subject: Re: Unwanted "gifts" from Tzedukahs
My parents, ad me'ah v'esrim, aren't religious, but when we moved to
Great Neck in the early 1960's, the late Rabbi Wolf, ZaTZ"L, and his
Great Neck Synagogue were very welcoming. My mother was even President
of the Sisterhood for many years.
My parents are still members of the shul and participate in what they
can.
This summer, I was in NY, and it was just before Tisha B'Av, and I
realized that I hadn't taken my Tisha B'Av siddur with me. I don't like
going to shul for the fast, especially at night, and it would have been
complicated for me to go. I started going through the shelves in my
parents' house, (actually looking for some s'farim I remember leaving
there when I got married.) Imagine my surprise when I found two Tisha
B'Av Artscroll editions. I asked my mother how they ended up in their
house.
"They were sent by some charities; I guess."
Wasn't I lucky!?
Batya
http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/
http://me-ander.blogspot.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Daniel Geretz <danny@...>
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:11:12 -0400
Subject: Unwanted "gifts" from Tzedukahs
Not really an answer in halacha, but the United States Postal Service
makes very clear that any unsolicited merchandise that is mailed to you
is "yours, and you are under no obligation to pay anything."
http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/merch.htm
Depending on how you interpret the material on this web site (I am not a
lawyer,) it is arguable that a tzedakah that follows up a "gift" mailing
with anything that appears to be a bill, dunning notice, or a statement
that you are obligated to pay for the merchandise, is in violation of
Federal law.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Volume 55 Issue 66
