Volume 57 Number 37
Produced: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:47:29 EDT
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Aliyot
[Menashe Elyashiv]
Aramaic kamatz
[Rabbi Meir Wise]
Gabbai's Handbook
[Mark Goldenberg]
Kaporos (3)
[S.Wise Robert Schoenfeld Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
Modim d'Rabbanan (2)
[Ariel Cohen Joel Rich]
Shabbat Elevators (3)
[Batya Medad Martin Stern Ari Trachtenberg]
The Noach Page
[Jacob Richman]
Tircha d'tzibbura
[Martin Stern]
Vezos Habrocho
[Perets Mett]
Who washes the hands?
[Avraham Friedenberg]
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From: Menashe Elyashiv <Menashe.Elyashiv@...>
Date: Fri, Oct 23,2009 at 06:01 AM
Subject: Aliyot
In Mj 57/36 B. Katz wrote:
> I don't know for sure, but I believe there were times when Vezot Haberacha
> was read on shabat (either the shabat before RH or between RH and YK).
I have that book. However, this happened in the Geonic times, of course
outside of Israel. In Israel, the practice was to read a Sedra, not a
Parasha each Shabbat, finishing the reading cycle in 3 or 3 1/2 years.
This cycle was still used by the Israeli community in Egypt when the
Rambam came there. Maran in the Shulhan Aruch brings the present reading
of Simhat Torah (3 Scrolls). So we can not say that the 7 Aliyot printing
reflects the older minhag that did not have a Hatan Beraishit. (hey, no
Hatan Beraishit kiddush?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rabbi Meir Wise <Meirhwise@...>
Date: Mon, Oct 19,2009 at 02:01 PM
Subject: Aramaic kamatz
I am sorry for the delay in replying to various list members who have
written about the kamatz in Aramaic, some to me directly, due to the
chagim and the birth of my first grandson!
I repeat that there is only one kamatz in Aramaic. This has been
confirmed by Rabbi Dr Irving Jacobs, a former Principal of Jews' College, London
and a world expert on Targum and Midrash.
The "chataf kamatz" in the word kadam in the Kaddish is not a sign of
a historically long vowel. On the contrary - the reverse is true! The
first vowel should have been a shva but attracts a chataf kamatz for
vowel harmony.
Compare the Hebrew melech which is m'lach in Aramaic or gever in
Hebrew which is g'var in Aramaic. We have reason to believe that kedem
in Hebrew is k'dam in Aramaic not kodam!
Another explanation is offered by Prof Stefan Reif of Cambridge in his
PhD thesis on the grammarian Shabbetai Sofer of Penishel in which he
proves that the 17th century Hebrew grammarians tried to impose the
same system on Aramaic.
If one looks at the most ancient superlineal versions of the
Targumim, for example those published by Brill, Leiden one will not
find a chataf kamatz at all! In fact one will not find a seghol. This
is very much like the Yemenite pronounciation to this day. (hashem
malach not melech) and I do not apologise for banging this drum which
is an ancient one and with which I am familiar.
Whereas I do not claim to be any kind of expert grammarian, it must be
recognised that the rules of grammar were imposed on and did not grow
out of the language and where there is a class with the mesorah, the
mesorah must take priority.
In conclusion, there is only one kamatz in aramaic and all the
chachamim and scholars at whose feet I have been privileged to sit
have pronounced kal nidrei and kadam avuhon.
behokara
Rabbi Meir Wise, London
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From: Mark Goldenberg <GOLDDDS@...>
Date: Thu, Oct 22,2009 at 02:01 AM
Subject: Gabbai's Handbook
Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...> writes:
> 1. the verb used should more properly be repetition. We all recite the
> Shmoneh Asreh but only the Hazan repeats it.
> 2. The word 'they' is incorrect. It should be 'he'.
> 3. I see no reason for a Hazan to remain in a bent position for the
> entire congregational repitition of modim d'rabanan nor do I see any
> reason not to begin the Hazan's repetition until after the congregation
> has finished the entire modim d'rabanan. Not only is that a physical
> strain, quite unnecessary in itself, and possibly the wait would be a
> tircha d'tzibbur, but it leaves open a major/critical element: who is
> the last person that finishes which would permit the Hazan to take up
> again? Seems fraught with indecision and hesitancy and pain.
The following is the response of Rabbi Elazar Muskin, who authored the
Sefer Minhagim of Young Israel of Century City:
Thank you for the grammatical corrections.
As far as the bowing for Modim and the Hazan waiting until the congregation
finishes saying "Modim D'rabanan" -- This was the practice that Rabbi
Soloveitchik Z"L instructed. He argued that the repetition of the Amida by
the Hazan serves as "Tefilah shel Tzibur" and therefore the congregation must
hear each word from the Hazan. If the congregation is saying "Modim
D'Rabbanan" then they can't be listening and hearing the repetition of Modim by
the Hazan at the same time. In order to avoid this the Rav Z"L said that
the Hazan should say the word "Modim," creating the obligation of the
congregation to respond to the Modim. Since one does not stand straight until he
reaches God's name he waits bent over and only continues once the
congregation has finished their recitation of "Modim D'Rabbanan". This
practice is
documented in the Sefer Nefesh Harav pp. 128-129.
Mark Goldenberg
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From: S.Wise <Smwise3@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 21,2009 at 11:01 PM
Subject: Kaporos
> And after all, the point of kapparos (and of the sacrifices in the Beis
> Hamikdash, on which it's modeled to some extent) is not the pagan idea of
> vicarious atonement ("the deity is angry at me and wants to kill me, so
> I'll appease his blood lust by slaughtering a dumb animal instead - he won't
> know or care about the difference"). It is rather, as the Chinuch explains
> (mitzvah 95,et al),addressed to the participant, to make him or her realize
> that by rights they deserve such a death for having disobeyed G-d, and to be
> contrite and do teshuvah. And it is teshuvah that brings about Hashem's
> forgiveness for our sins.
Of all the comments on my post regarding the practice of live kapporos,
this one struck me as not drawing such a strong distinction. In both cases,
you are essentially saying the same thing. What is the difference between
saying an angry deity who wants to kill you, or a realization that G-d will
kill you for disobeying him. Aside from that, how many acts are chayav misah,
deserving of death, that this should have become such a practice, that one
should feel he or should be punished by death?
All these comments in defense of the kapporos through bird seems more like
a rationalization than anything else. Many people don't use chickens, and I
would be hard-pressed to believe that everyone who uses chickens is so
overwhelmed by the thought that they are deserving of death and that this
actually makes a difference.
Please forgive my cynicism, but although I was born and raised and lived my
entire life frum,, I am not at all convicned that every custom we follow
makes sense. In this case, what took so long to start this minhag in the
first place, and why is it not universally performed?
S.Wise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert Schoenfeld <frank_james@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 21,2009 at 10:01 AM
Subject: Kaporos
This ritual may be a remnant from the Bais Hamikdosh (temple) The Kohan
Gadol (high priest) may have done this before sacrificing a dove or other
bird
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabbahillel@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 21,2009 at 12:01 PM
Subject: Kaporos
> From: Mona Berdugo <yignmona@...>
> I always wondered about this. Why do kaparot at all for an unborn
> child? What sins can an unborn child possibly commit? It's not like
> there are any chinuch issues involved either.
Speaking logically, it would appear that the kaporos is for the
benefit of the mother. For example, if there is something hanging over
the family that could result in something happening to the unborn
infant, then this should be a kaporo for it. Another possibility would
be explained by the idea of "gilgul" (reincarnation) in which the soul
animating the unborn infant might have a "punishment" hanging over it
from a previous life cycle.
Of course, the idea (expressed by other posters) that the kaporo is
for the benefit of the person performing the ritual would apply as
well. This would allow the mother to understand the potential in the
future of the infant and inspire her to pray for the welfare of her
baby and be more inspired to raise it properly.
--
Sabba - ' " - Hillel
Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<SabbaHillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ariel Cohen <arielcypora@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 21,2009 at 10:01 AM
Subject: Modim d'Rabbanan
Yisrael Medad wrote:
> I see no reason for a Hazan to remain in a bent position for the
> entire congregational repetition of modim d'rabanan nor do I see any
> reason not to begin the Hazan's repetition until after the congregation
> has finished the entire modim d'rabanan.
This practice is not based on a requirement for the Hazan to remain
in a bent position until after the congregation has finished. Rather it is
based on the combination of two considerations:
1: The assumption that the Hazan should say every word of the repetition
aloud, in a manner in which the congregation can hear.
2: The assumption that one who says modim should bow up to and
including the words "Ata Hu le'dor va'dor".
Thus, the Hazan should say the word "modim", pause so that the
remainder of his recitation should be heard by the congregation once
they have completed the "modim de'rabanan", then continue - in a bent
position - until the words "le'dor va'dor".
Both of the above were the practice of Rav Soloveitchik. I do not know the
reason or the source for the latter assumption although it is clear that the
words "le'dor va'dor" mark a dividing line between two distinct parts of
modim.
Ariel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 21,2009 at 10:01 AM
Subject: Modim d'Rabbanan
Yisrael Medad wrote:
> 3. I see no reason for a Hazan to remain in a bent position for the
> entire congregational repitition of modim d'rabanan nor do I see any
> reason not to begin the Hazan's repetition until after the congregation
> has finished the entire modim d'rabanan. Not only is that a physical
> strain, quite unnecessary in itself, and possibly the wait would be a
> tircha d'tzibbur, but it leaves open a major/critical element: who is
> the last person that finishes which would permit the Hazan to take up
> again? Seems fraught with indecision and hesitancy and pain.
>
> As with most if not all congregations I have davened in, the hazan
> simply pronounces 'modim', waits 3-4 seconds and then proceeds.
This aiui [as I understand it-MOD] was the practice of The Rav (R' JB
Soloveitchik). It is based on his understanding that the congregation must hear
the entire modim from the Hazan (which they can't if they are saying modim
d'rabanan at the same time) but we don't want it to seem like the Hazan is not
"modim" while everyone else is, so he says the first few words (in a very loud
voice) and then waits until they finish. IIRC The Rav waited as Shatz in bent
position until midway through the repitition (look in the R'YBS machzor-I think
it's mentioned there)
KT
Joel Rich
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 21,2009 at 10:01 AM
Subject: Shabbat Elevators
From: Carl Singer:
> I believe the issue is that "old" elevators were essentially "dumb" --
> they went up and down, up and down -- using a counterweight, perhaps.
> One's getting on or off didn't effect the elevator's operations, per se.
>
> My presumption is that "new" elevators are "smart" -- they have sensors
> that are impacted by a passenger getting on or off -- thus impacting the
> weight of the elevator AND causing some electrical things to happen in
> response.
Even the old elevators of 45 years ago reacted, though maybe more
mechanically. Of course there was the function, even then, that all
passengers were weighed, and a certain sum total froze it.
That's why I've almost never taken advantage of the Shabbat elevator,
until I had no choice due to bad knees etc.
Batya
<http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/> Shiloh Musings
<http://me-ander.blogspot.com/> me-ander
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 21,2009 at 10:01 AM
Subject: Shabbat Elevators
Stephen Phillips <admin@...> wrote:
> My understanding, such as it is, is that the problem is not when the elevator
> ascends, but when it descends. It is something to do with the braking creating
> additional energy. Maybe someone else here can bring more authority to explain
> what I heard was the problem with elevators.
When descending, the weight of the persons in the elevator essentially cause
the motor, in resisting their free fall, to act as a generator of
electricity. According to Rabbi Halpern's book on the subject, this is one
of the main problems with the use of lifts on Shabbat and he suggests a
method to avoid this, which is incorporated in the Shabbat elevators he has
designed.
However, I have no idea why there should now be an objection to what had
previously been considered acceptable, at least for elderly or weak people,
who would otherwise have been unable to leave their apartments in high rise
buildings, or hospitals and similar institutions. Whether able-bodied people
should make use of such elevators has always been a matter of dispute and
this might be the reason behind the latest ruling.
Martin Stern
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 21,2009 at 11:01 AM
Subject: Shabbat Elevators
Carl Singer wrote:
>
> I believe the issue is that "old" elevators were essentially "dumb"
> -- they
> went up and down, up and down -- using a counterweight, perhaps.
> One's getting on or off didn't effect the elevator's operations, per
> se.
>
> My presumption is that "new" elevators are "smart" -- they have
> sensors that
> are impacted by a passenger getting on or off -- thus impacting the
> weight
> of the elevator AND causing some electrical things to happen in
> response.
This is going to become an increasing problem from the Shabbat-observant
community. These days, you literally cannot walk down a city street
without affecting a camera or sensor of some type, often to your benefit.
Buildings increasingly employ motion and heat sensors to target lighting and
heating to their resident's locations, and medical devices increasingly utilize
adaptive technology (e.g.hearing aids adjusting volume based on background
noise/speaker's volume, etc.).
Ultimately, a nuanced and sophisticated evaluation of the technologies
will be absolutely necessary if we do not want to end up like the Amish.
best,
-Ari
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From: Jacob Richman <jrichman@...>
Date: Mon, Oct 19,2009 at 08:01 PM
Subject: The Noach Page
Hi Everyone!
I created on my website a new section for timely topics.
The first topic I added to the new section is called:
The Noach Page
The Noach Page has links to children parsha pages,
commentary pages, humor items (including the Bill Cosby
Noach skit) and a section on Noach stamps, graphics and
clipart.
The address is:
http://www.jr.co.il/t/noach.htm
Enjoy!
Jacob
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Sun, Oct 18,2009 at 10:01 AM
Subject: Tircha d'tzibbura
On Thu, Oct 8,2009, Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...> wrote:
Subject: Tircha d'tzibbura
> I am pretty sure I read that the reason for not stepping back
> a second time is tircha d'tzibbur, that is, you're wasting
> the congregation's time unnecessarily.
Unfortunately too many people are so absorbed in their personal piety that
they ignore such tircha d'tzibbura or, for that matter, any inconvenience it
may cause other individuals.
The prime example is the habit of certain individuals to daven shemoneh
esrei so slowly that they hardly finish before the shats [prayer leader --mod]
completes his repetition. What they forget is that nobody else may sit down
within 4 amot (approximately 6 feet) of them. While there is an exemption for
those who are old or infirm, it can be the case that one of their neighbours is
temporarily indisposed or fatigued but feels embarrassed about availing
himself of this leniency.
Martin Stern
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 21,2009 at 09:01 AM
Subject: Vezos Habrocho
On 21 Oct 2009, at 12:50, Mail-Jewish wrote:
> The reading of Vezot Habracha is universally treated as though it were
> Shabbat, since there is no regular Shabbat on which it is ever read.
> This
> means that in Eretz Yisrael they read the same on Simchat torah
> whether it
> falls on Shabbat or not.
>
> So, as with any Shabbat which has 3 sifrei torah to read, we read 6
> aliyot
> from the first sefer, the seventh aliyah from the second sefer, and
> the
> maftir from the third sefer.
This is incorrect. The reading of Breishis on Simchas Torah is a
relatively late innovation, and not part of the official reading.
The official number of aliyos (five on a weekday yomtov, seven on
Shabos) have to be completed in Vezos Habrocho.
In practice, the universal custom is to complete the aliyos before
choson torah.
When it falls on Shabbos (as this year in Erets Yisroel) seven aliyos
are completed before Choson Torah. (In practice the seven aliyos are
repeated multiple times in most communities, so that everyone receives
an aliyo).
Perets Mett
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From: Avraham Friedenberg <elshpen@...>
Date: Wed, Oct 21,2009 at 10:01 AM
Subject: Who washes the hands?
When I was learning in yeshiva after getting married, there were few Levi'im
who attended shacahrit. In the absence of any Levi'im, I was occasionally
asked (because I was a bachor [firstborn] to wash the hands of Kohanim
before they duchaned.
What would happen if there are no Levi'im and no bachorim? Who washes the
hands of the Kohanim in that situation?
Avraham Friedenberg
Karnei Shomron
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End of Volume 57 Issue 37
