Volume 59 Number 63 Produced: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 02:07:20 EDT Subjects Discussed In This Issue: A punctuation question (2) [Sammy Finkelman Orrin Tilevitz] Avraham and Sara in Egypt and in Grar [Abe Brot] Friday night Kiddush: Ashkenaz vs. Sephard [Ben Katz] Halacha for special agents [David Tzohar] Hechsher on the Label (2) [Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz Carl Singer] Polling Places in Religious Buildings (2) [Sarah Beck] Ruth as a Hebrew Name (7) [David Ziants Batya Medad Freda B Birnbaum Judith Weil Stuart Pilichowski Orrin Tilevitz Michael Poppers] Zemanim? [Akiva Miller] Zkainim [David Ziants] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sammy Finkelman <sammy.finkelman@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 03:01 PM Subject: A punctuation question Jack Gross wrote (MJ 59#61): > It is obvious (at least to me) that our Birkat Avodah originated during the > time of the Mikdash (cf. the Berachot that the mishna says were recited by > Kohen Gadol on Yom Kippur after reading the parasha), and was later refitted > to the post-churban era. That has to be the truth, when you reflect that the Shemonah Esrei goes back to the Anshei Knesses HaGedolah and also that it was not very long after the Churban that they added a 19th Berechah. One caveat though, occurs to me: There may not have been an exact text. At least when the Berachahs in the Shemonah Esrei were first established, what it was was that the berachah had to end with certain words (which is how they are named in the Gemorah) and it had to cover certain items and it had to maybe say this before that and not mention this - all sorts of conditions applied, but nevertheless there could be many ways of wording the Berachah. And this was not an omission. It was an early principle, that a person saying the Shemonah Esrei should vary his text and not say the exact same words every day. It's right there in Pirkei Avos 2:13: c'she;atah mitpalel, al ta'as tefilat'cha keva - Rabbi Shimon says, when you pray, don't make your prayer keva [fixed = exact wording]. But this was a principle impossible for many people to follow, especially later when Hebrew stopped being a really living language, and so they settled down to a fixed text. Rabbi Shimon there was a pupil of Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai so the saying is approximately from the time of the destruction - maybe he started saying that later, but it can't be to much later as Rabban Yochanan ben of Zakkai died about 14 years after the Churban. This probably proves though there actually was no 100% fixed text. Neverthelss there might have been something close to it. 1. R'tzei ... b'ammecha Yisrael [u'v'tephillatam], Probably originally V'Avodosom. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 03:01 PM Subject: A punctuation question Sammy Finkelman wrote (MJ 59#61): > V'Hashaiv Es Ha'Avodah Li'Dvir Baisecha, and V'Ishai Yisroel we don't find any > more [in their machzorim](i.e., it and what follows is omitted) > It could be that this was the basis for the Rabbinical Assembly (Conservative > Judaism) omitting those words in its Siddur. It would be interesting to find out > if they actually cited this Tosfos. That might be plausible If this were the only related change in the Conservative liturgy. But it isn't. My recollection is that the old Silverman siddur -- which is my point of reference, and what I assume Sammy is referring to--changes "vesham naase lefanecha et korbenot chovoteinu" ["and there we will perform before You our obligatory sacrificies"] to "vesham asu lefanecha et korbenot chovoteinu" [or maybe it's even "korbenot chovoteihem", changing a prayer for the future to the statement of the past. In short, Conservative doctrine apparently doesn't admit to restoration of the sacrifices. The Conservative "Siddur Sim Shalom" presents multiple alternatives for the Shabbat Musaf, but the Orthodox version that explicitly prays for the resumption of animal sacrifice in a rebuilt Temple is not one of them. Instead, Siddur Sim Shalom adopts an innovation from "The Shabbat and Festival Prayerbook" in the Musaf Amidah; it changes the phrase na'ase ve'nakriv (we will present and sacrifice) to asu ve'hikrivu (they presented and sacrificed). The petition to accept the "fire offerings of Israel" is removed from the Amidah. There are similar modifications in the Rosh Hodesh Amidah. "Siddur Sim Shalom for Shabbat and Festivals" does not present multiple services; it presents one musaf for Shabbat, for festivals, and for Rosh Hodesh. Within each service, the reader is offered a traditional text, as well as an alternative text which eliminates mention of sacrifices. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/05-Worship/section-20.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Abe Brot <abe.brot@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 06:01 AM Subject: Avraham and Sara in Egypt and in Grar In Parshat Lech-Lecha, we read about the incident where Avram and Sarai are driven from Cana'an because of a famine and go to live in Egypt. In order to protect Avram's life, they declare themselves as brother and sister. Several of the commentators, especially the Ramban, state that Avram erred in this matter because he left Cana'an without G-d's command, and thereby risked Sarai's life and honor. (The Ramban also sees the Egyptian exile of Avraham's descendents as a punishment for this sin.) But what about the additional sin of putting Sarai (a married women) in a position where she might have martyred herself and not submit to gilui arayot (a severe illicit relationship). Here, we can probably say that before receiving the Torah, the rule that requires martyrdom instead of gilui arayot does not apply. Now we move to Parshat Vayera, and this time we read of a more puzzling incident where Avraham and Sara go to live in Grar, and again adopt the "brother and sister" story. But this time, there was no famine that drove them away from Eilonai-Mamrei! (Rashi says that one of the reasons for the move was to distant themselves from Lot, who became infamous because of his relationships with his daughters.) Of course, Sara was taken to King Avimelech's house. Sara was ultimately saved from being violated only because of G-d's intervention. Since there was no famine in Cana'an, what was Avraham's justification for moving to Grar, and then using the "brother and sister" story again? (This was against Sara's will, according to Rashi.) The dangers were very real and no justification is stated in the Torah. In fact, during G-d's dealings with Avimelech, Avimelech is shown to be a tzadik and Avraham is not shown in that light. Later, during the confrontation between Avraham and Avimelech, Avraham excuses his behavior by saying "I thought there was no fear of G-d in this place, and I expected to be killed because of my wife". So why did he come to Grar? So how do we explain Avraham's behavior in this incident? Best regards, Avraham Brot Petah Tikva ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ben Katz <BKatz@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 07:01 PM Subject: Friday night Kiddush: Ashkenaz vs. Sephard Perets Mett <p.mett@...> wrote (MJ 59#62): > Vaychulu has 35 words. The Sfard nusach of kidush has 35 words, to parallel > the 35 words in Vaychulu. Adding the two introductory words "yom hashishi" > gives a total of 72 words, corresponding to one the names of HKBH Also the initial 4 letters of yom hashishi vayechulu hashamayim are YHVH ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Tzohar <davidtzohar@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 05:01 PM Subject: Halacha for special agents About thirty years ago I was recruited by the Mossad. Actually it turns out that it was a branch of the Mossad called LAKAM. These were the people who ran Jonathan Pollard. After an exhausting psychological evaluation I was interviewed by another officer who asked me whether my being Dati would cause any problems. He asked me if I would be willing to shave my beard, eat non-kosher food and in general play the part of a non-Jew. He also presented me with some moral dilemmas which had to do with operations which would endanger (read kill) civilians. To all of these questions I replied that I would have to consult with my Rav, but it was my understanding that a milchemet mitzvah, where there is a question of pikuach nefesh of klal Yisrael takes precedence over all the mitzvot of the Torah. I don't know if my hesitant answers were the reason, but in the end (thank G-d) I did not become an agent. It is interesting to note that the one place where the Torah lets one give in to his evil inclination is "eshet yifat toar" where the warrior is allowed to have relations with a captured gentile woman. There are a number of different interpretations of exactly what the procedure is and in what circumstances this applies. The Gemarra also specifically allows soldiers to eat non-kosher food that they find on the battlefield in order to keep their strength up. I know of soldiers who employed this hetter during the fighting west of the Suez canal in the Yom Kippur war. In modern day Israel these questions are no longer theoretical, but halacha lema'aseh. -- David Tzohar http://tzoharlateivahebrew.blogspot.com/ http://tzoharlateiva.blogspot.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabbahillel@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 02:01 PM Subject: Hechsher on the Label Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...> weote (MJ 59#62): > I recently tasted a product whose label lists only natural fruit flavors but > which taste like artificially-flavored cough syrup. According to the label, the > product has a hechsher from the OU and another organization whose insignia I > didn't recognize. Let's say that in fact the flavorings are artificial but > reliably kosher, and the OU found out about this. Would the OU demand that the > labels be changed on pain of withdrawing their hechsher, or would they say > "the product is kosher, and our responsibility ends there"? You state that the ingredients are all "natural" but do not state whether or not it actually says "all natural ingredients". Also, the artificial flavors in cough syrup were originally created in order to mimic certain "natural" ingredients. As a result, consumers have come to identify those flavors with cough syrup. The government regulations allow certain ingredients to be left off the label as well as the use of the term "natural ingredients" under certain circumstances. THe OU may indeed be required to not be stricter than the government as far as the label goes. Otherwise, they could be sued for libeling the manufacturer. Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carl Singer <carl.singer@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 02:01 PM Subject: Hechsher on the Label Orrin Tilevitz in MJ 59#62 posts: > I recently tasted a product whose label lists only natural fruit flavors > but which taste like artificially-flavored cough syrup. According to the > label, the product has a hechsher from the OU and >another organization > whose insignia I didn't recognize. Let's say that in fact the flavorings are > artificial but reliably kosher, and the OU found out about this. Would the > OU demand that the >labels be changed on pain of withdrawing their hechsher, > or would they say "the product is kosher, and our responsibility ends there"? It should be noted that government labeling requirements (in the U.S.) vary from halachic requirements that the OU and other kashrut organizations may have. Specifically, government labeling requirements exempt items of a certain minimal percentage from needing to appear on the label. So, Orrin may have experienced any of the following: 1) The item may, as the label proclaimed, have contained (only) natural fruit flavors but nonetheless tasted like artificially-flavored cough syrup. 2) The item may have also contained some other ingredient (leading to the cough syrup taste) which is not on the label (but in keeping with government labeling requirements.) 3) The item may have been mislabeled -- that is the label was inaccurate and/or not in conformance with government labeling requirements. Kashrut certifying agencies check all ingredients (and their sources) -- whether or not they are on the label. Carl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sarah Beck <beckse@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 02:01 PM Subject: Polling Places in Religious Buildings Sadly, in my own name-elided district, we once had a lulav and etrog sale going on in the same room as the polls. Sounds funny -- but what if it were a Nativity set sale in the gym of a parochial school?! I know many disagree, but imho there can't be a high enough wall between voting and religious stuff. It's hard enough to get people to vote without any sort of chilling effect. Sarah ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Debbie Oney <DebbieOney@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 08:01 PM Subject: Polling Places in Religious Buildings Hi, I live in Chicago and my local polling place is in a shul. Also, in Illinois, it is my understanding all registered voters can vote during early voting (no reason needed). The closest place to where I live to do that is at a city park building. Debbie ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Ziants <dziants@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 11:01 AM Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name I did a search of my neighbourhood telephone directory (a religious neighbourhood with both ashkenazim and sephardim) of just under 520 significant entries, and can document the following statistics (When searching, I tried to take into account sometimes use of haser [implicit vocalisation] and maleh [explicit vocalisation] spellings as well as diminutives of names): Rachel - 25 entries Sarah - 15 entries Sarit - 4 entries Rivka - 8 entries Leah - 4 entries Miriam - 10 entries Ruth - 5 entries Naomi - 3 entries Esther - 6 entries Devorah - 7 entries Yehudit - 4 entries Shira - 5 entries Channa - 14 entries Although this does not cover all the entries, and I did not search entries that have a non-Hebrew name, I think that this gives an indication that Ruth gets a reasonable cross-section of usage among the other common names. However, this doesn't really answer the point as we have no indication that the 5 Ruths listed here really have their "shem b'yisrael" [Official Jewish name] as Ruth, so I will just add my opinion. I think that in most cases, among Israelis, this anomaly does not occur with any name. If it does occur, it is usually because a parent needs to name the new born after a relative who had a name that is not so popular, or just doesn't like. I know of so many Ruths that are not gerim [converts], that I doubt that this is a name that is avoided by most people. David Ziants ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 12:01 PM Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name Lisa Liel <lisa@...> wrote (MJ 59#62): > I just discovered that my late Aunt Ruth's Hebrew name wasn't Ruth -- it was > Rochel something-or-other. That did not surprise me, I guess, because I was > under the vague impression that Ruth was primarily a name for converts. I > checked quickly with my LOR, who performs gittin [Jewish divorces} and he had to > think hard before coming up with someone whose Hebrew name was Ruth. Any Ruths > (Hebrew name) who aren't converts and subscribe to MJ? Anybody know any other > Ruths (English name) with non-matching Hebrew names? And any idea why someone > born in the U.S. before 1920 would be given a biblical English name that didn't > match her Hebrew name? There are plenty of born-Jewish Rut/Ruth's as only name here in Israel. And among my parents' siblings peers there are all sorts of names Hebrew/English/Yiddish that "match" or don't. There are neither rules nor absolutes. Batya Medad ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 02:01 PM Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name My mother's "English name" was Pauline Ruth, though she was always known as Ruth (or "Rut", rhyming with "boot", or "Ruti"). Her Hebrew name, however, was Pia Riva. No idea why. And no converts involved here. Freda Birnbaum ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Judith Weil <weildj@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 02:01 PM Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name Lisa Liel <lisa@...> wrote (MJ 59#62): > I checked quickly with my LOR, who performs gittin [Jewish divorces} and he > had to think hard before coming up with someone whose Hebrew name was Ruth. > Any Ruths (Hebrew name) who aren't converts and subscribe to MJ? Although Ruth is a popular name with converts I have come across a number of people whose Hebrew names were Ruth, and who definitely weren't converts. These include a sister-in-law of mine and a granddaughter. Judith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stuart Pilichowski <stupillow@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 03:01 PM Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name Lisa Liel <lisa@...> wrote (MJ 59#62): > I just discovered that my late Aunt Ruth's Hebrew name wasn't Ruth -- it was > Rochel something-or-other. That did not surprise me, I guess, because I was > under the vague impression that Ruth was primarily a name for converts. I > checked quickly with my LOR, who performs gittin [Jewish divorces} and he had to > think hard before coming up with someone whose Hebrew name was Ruth. Any Ruths > (Hebrew name) who aren't converts and subscribe to MJ? Anybody know any other > Ruths (English name) with non-matching Hebrew names? And any idea why someone > born in the U.S. before 1920 would be given a biblical English name that didn't > match her Hebrew name? My wife's English name is Ruth . . . . .Hebrew name: Rachel Miriam . . . . Why "Ruth"? She was born around Shavuot. . . . . . I don't know if we'll ever know why she was named Rachel Miriam . . . . . Stuart Pilichowski Mevaseret Zion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 04:01 PM Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name In MJ 59#62, Lisa Liel wrote: > And that they didn't want to use Rochel in English for the simple reason that > it has a chet in it, and sounds less American. My grandmother Rose was Rochel > Leah; same kind of thing. Rachel has no chet. And yes, Rose does sound more American. But if you're going to pick a more American name, why another Biblical name like Ruth? It's a puzzle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Poppers <MPoppers@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 08:01 PM Subject: Ruth as a Hebrew Name In MJ 59#61, Orrin Tilevitz <tilevitzo@...> asked: > Anybody know any other Ruths (English name) with non-matching Hebrew names? I don't know if this fact can be considered an answer to Orrin's question, as I knew _ rather than _ know, but my maternal grandmother a'h' was named Racheil but (as per my mother shetichyeh) changed her legal name (in pre-WWII Germany) from Rachel to Ruth because as a kid she hated the German diminutive of her name apparently used derogatively by her peers. My wife Leah shetichyeh and I named our oldest daughter after Oma but, for a reason some may understand, didn't name her Rachel :). All the best from -- Michael Poppers via BB pager ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 08:01 PM Subject: Zemanim? Dr. William Gewirtz (MN 59#62) wrote: > Davening maariv late on motza'ai shabbat is more interesting and as you > note permissible. ... > The shul seems to be waiting almost 4 hours, well beyond anything in halakha. If "davening maariv late on motza'ai shabbat" is permissible, then what's your problem with waiting 4 hours? It seems to me that no one claims that one *ought* to wait that long. Rather, the late minyan is there for the convenience of those who want it. When I lived in Bayit Vegan, I was only two short blocks from the "minyan factory" of the Amshinover Chassidim. We never had to rush through Shalosh Seudos, because there were minyanim for maariv available for quite a few hours after Shabbos. IIRC, this lasted for 4 hours or so, although they were much less frequent the later it got. Akiva Miller ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Ziants <dziants@...> Date: Tue, Oct 19,2010 at 09:01 AM Subject: Zkainim I thank Sammy Finkelman (MJ 59#60) for his positive input and he is correct that Z'kainim are mentioned in the quoted pasuk Sefer Yehoshua [Joshua] 24:31. They are also mentioned in Yehoshua 8:32 at the affirmation of the covenant on Har G'rizim and Har Aival. The Bartenura on the mishna that we are discussing (Avot 1:1) says that there were further generations of Z'kainim till the last of the Z'kainim who was Aili HaCohen. The Torah was passed down all these generations till it reached the Nevi'im [Prophets] Also the Me'iri mentions this, see (in manuscript form - great we have modern technology to read this at home <smile>): http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=19773&st=&pgnum=8 and he says there, that the Zkainim in the mishna includes the Shophtim [Judges]. (The Me'iri there also quotes an alternate version of the Mishna in Avot d'Rabbi Natan that inserts shophtim explicitly between z'kainim and n'vi'im, as a separate entity in the chain.) See link: http://www.daat.ac.il/encyclopedia/value.asp?id1=1648 and although I do not know how trustworthy the information is here, but it seems that Aili HaCohen was 58 years old when he started to be a judge. So Aili HaCohen, being a judge, had title of Zakain at least at the age of 58. Certainly he was a wise, mature, experienced and righteous person but is this considered an old person? (Was his mistake with Channa, when she prayed silently, that caused his sons to lose respect of their father and go astray? The sons going astray, so they were no longer fit to serve as Cohanim, was in his old age but did this affect his personal status as a shophet or as a Cohen in the mishkan?) Maybe I completely missed something here, so would be happy to receive more feedback. David Ziants ----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Volume 59 Issue 63