Volume 59 Number 76
Produced: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 03:41:53 EST
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Changing psak / practices / observance (4)
[Deborah Wenger Elie Rosenfeld Menashe Elyashiv Menashe Elyashiv]
labor/kids - shabbat pikuach nefesh
[Leah S.R. Gordon]
Orchat shabbat and electricity
[Sammy Finkelman]
The frumkeit of our generation (2)
[Carl Singer Stuart Wise]
What is life threatening? (2)
[Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz Bernard Raab]
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From: Deborah Wenger <debwenger@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 8,2010 at 05:01 PM
Subject: Changing psak / practices / observance
Carl Singer (MJ 59#73) asked:
> It seems that communities have less problems with going machmir. Can
> any of the MJ readers give examples of machmir to maikel [less stringent]
> that weren't considered "slippage" or falling off the derech? Or for
> that matter can anyone provide substantial examples of any shifting
> towards maikel.
The one that strikes me the most is the observance of Sefirat Ha-Omer (counting
the Omer). When I was growing up (many many years ago), everyone I knew observed
ALL of Sefirah, except for Lag Ba-Omer, refraining from making/attending
smachot, going to musical events, etc.
These days, though, people seem to choose to observe Sefirah either
(1) from Pesach to Lag Ba-Omer or
(2) from Rosh Chodesh Iyar until the end of Sefirah.
However, I have seen many rabbis pasken that if you're invited to a simcha
during (1) if you hold (2) or vice versa, it's OK to go. This essentially
reduces Sefirah to just the period between Rosh Chodesh Iyar to Lag Ba-Omer.
Comments?
Deborah Wenger
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From: Elie Rosenfeld <rosenfeld.elie@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 8,2010 at 07:16 PM
Subject: Changing psak / practices / observance
Ben Katz writes (MJ 59#74):
> I have often been amazed at this, but I can think of 2 examples where practice
> has gone to the easier position since my childhood:
> ...
> 2. Not saying selichot at midnight. When I was a kid, even Conservative
> shuls would say selichot the first Sat. night at midnight. Now, I know
> of only 1 Orthodox shul in my area that does so.
That specific example is different in my town at least; all the Orthodox
shuls do still have the "midnight" (= ~1 am DST) selichos the first night.
But you reminded me of a similar example. My shul at least, and I believe
others in town, has a 10 pm maariv-selichos every subsequent day, as an
alternate to the very early am selichos before shachris. I know the
normative minhag would not view this as an optimal time for selichos,
and such an "alternate" selichos minyan was not around 20 or more years ago.
That said, I also feel in general that the very concept of pure "chumra"
[stringency] and "kula" [leniency] is somewhat misleading, because most
cases when one is being machmir [strict] in one area of halacha, they
are simultaneously being maikal [lenient] in another area, and vice versa.
But that's a whole 'nother post....
Elie Rosenfeld
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From: Menashe Elyashiv <Menashe.Elyashiv@...>
Date: Tue, Nov 9,2010 at 02:01 AM
Subject: Changing psak / practices / observance
Ben wrote (MJ 59#74):
> I have often been amazed at this, but I can think of 2 examples where
> practice has gone to the easier position since my childhood:
>
> 1. Swimming on the 9 days. When I was a kid, even Conservative Day Camps
> that I attended would not allow it. Now instructionbal swims seem to be
> permitted.
>
> 2. Not saying selichot at midnight. When I was a kid, even Conservative
> shuls would say selichot the first Sat. night at midnight. Now, I know of only
> 1 Orthodox shul in my area that does so.
I remember that my father allowed instructional and exercise swimming (for
Ashkenazim, no problem at all for Sefaradim). Saying Selihot at (real)
midnight is one minhag. However, there is a second minhag, to say them as
regular in the pre mourning. Not only in vatekin (sunrise) minyan, but
also in Yeshivot that want to keep the usual schedule. Also, here Sunday
is a workday, and finishing Selihot at 1:30 AM makes it hard to be at work
at 7:30 Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Menashe Elyashiv <Menashe.Elyashiv@...>
Date: Tue, Nov 9,2010 at 02:01 AM
Subject: Changing psak / practices / observance
Akiva wrote (MJ 59#75):
> In some communities, it was unheard of to begin Shabbos early on the late
> summer days, but this is being seen more often. When I was in Israel, Maariv
> would never be said before dark, let alone before sunset, even on Friday, but
> I hear that this is becoming more and more widespread.
True. In my place, the LOR will not allow any Ashkenazi Beit Keneset to
have an early Friday minyan. So anyone wanting to enjoy Friday night with
his kids (and wife) has to come to our Beit Keneset. It is so full, that
there is no room to stand! Maybe one day he will realize that there is
a need for the early minyan.
Michael wrote (MJ 59#75):
> I'd add the increasingly common practice of those living in Chutz l'Aretz
> and spending Yom Tov in Israel to celebrate one day of Yom Tov>.
Also true, and it seems strange to see fellow Jews running a country on
"your" Yom Tov
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From: Leah S.R. Gordon <leah@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 8,2010 at 09:01 PM
Subject: labor/kids - shabbat pikuach nefesh
I completely agree with Michael Feldstein (MJ 59#75); thank you Chana (MJ
59#74)! Your erudition and knowledge really elevate M.J. discourse.
It's so interesting to me that labor is classified that way [always takes
halakhic precedence for safety]. It's true that labor progression, even in
modern times, is a bit of a mystery and all the monitors in the world can't
guarantee a healthy new life.
I think if it had been my first baby, I would have classified it as "labor"
right away, or been sure that my inkling was enough of a start to labor.
With my second, I had been having pre-contractions for weeks, and the baby
was healthy and term, and my midwife and I had a plan about how much labor
should proceed before a call. I'm not sure I would have called any earlier
than I did even on a Tuesday - though Chana's point about people not taking
labor seriously enough is well-taken. For anyone who doubts, I *did* call
the midwife in that case, i.e. on shabbat afternoon!
As a mom of three boys, we have also had our share of 'definite trip to ER this
second' on shabbat and chag too, i.e. much less borderline-seeming cases. My
youngest had to have stitches right above his eye on the last day of Pesach, for
instance, and my second had to have stitches on his forehead on shabbat. I
myself had to go to the ER for anaphylactic allergic reactions more than once on
shabbat. I am sorry to say that I once even injured (by accident) my sister
playing outside on shabbat, and *she* had to go get stitches. Somehow these
stitches things happen disproportionately on shabbat!
--Leah S. R. Gordon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sammy Finkelman <sammy.finkelman@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 8,2010 at 03:01 PM
Subject: Orchat shabbat and electricity
In MJ 59#74 Eli Turkel wrote:
> R. Broyde has pointed out that in volume 2 of Minchat Shlomo, R. Auerbach
> seems to pasken according to his own understanding that there is no Torah
> or probably even rabbinic prohibition.
It is the teshuva entitled "Beinyan Ohr Menorat HaNion" which was published as
teshuva 19 there that he mentioned.
Does he mean to say this is in tension with the notion that R. Auerbach wrote
his letters to the Chazon Ish only as a theoretical debate but that in practice
he doesn't disagree with the Chazon Ish, or does he mean to say that this shows
R. Auerbach held there was no Torah or probably even rabbinic prohibition?
What Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach tried to do in some cases was argue that even
according to the Chazon Ish something would be permitted.
Here is footnote 64 in http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/english/journal/broyde_1.htm
64. The use of electric card keys to open hotel rooms on Shabbat or
Yom Tov is more problematic, as none of these otherwise permissive
factors are present. Using such a card closes a circuit which,
according to the Chazon Ish, is a biblical violation of either
building (boneh) or finishing an appliance (ma'keh bepatish). Rabbi
Auerbach, for reasons explained above, states that since this
"building" or completing of an appliance (the lock) is transient, no
violation occurs even according to the Chazon Ish. Those who base the
prohibition to use electricity during Shabbat on molid (creating)
would rule that a rabbinic violation is present. Since absent great
need one should, even according to Rabbi Auerbach, function as if
creating electricity is a rabbinic violation, it is prohibited to use
such a card on Shabbat or Yom Tov. It is, however, permitted to ask a
Gentile to open one's hotel room if no other options are available.
So, too, many authorities would permit one, in a case of need, to use
the card in an unusual way (kelachar yad) to open the door. Cards
which are mechanical, and not electric, may be used on Shabbat and Yom
Tov.
According to this summary, what Rabbi Auerbach, is trying to do is to
say something is permitted regardless of the opinion one accepts.
That's not the same thing as only disagreeing theoretically.
Shlomo Brody wrote in the Jerusalem Post on Nov. 5, 2009 cited here
http://themindofmichael.com/2009/11/10/electricity-on-shabbat
and found http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/Article.aspx?id=159624
> In addition to a number of more specific points, Rabbi Auerbach generally
> claimed that none of the aforementioned prohibitions apply to activities,
> like opening circuits, which are regularly done and undone throughout the
> day (Minhat Shlomo 1:11). Nonetheless, he himself adopted the rabbinic
> consensus that opening or closing electric circuits, even without the
> involvement of light, remains prohibited, for one reason or another.
Eli Turkel continued:
> [about Orchat Shabbat] 2. R. Moshe Feinstein (OC 4:84) says one should be
> "chosheh lemelacha de-oraisa".
Footnote 25 in The Use of Electricity on Shabbat and Yom Tov by Rabbi
Michael Broyde & Rabbi Howard Jachter Journal of Halacha &
Contemporary Society, No. XXI - Spring 91 - Pesach 5751 says:
> Rabbi Moshe D. Tendler (in a lecture at Yeshiva University) has asserted
> that this argument appears to have convinced Rabbi Moshe Feinstein to reject
> the opinion of the Chazon Ish. Rabbi Feinstein's writings provide no precise
> definition of the prohibition one violates when using electricity, although he
> does not appear to have accepted the Chazon Ish's opinion. See, e.g., Iggerot
> Moshe, Orach Chaim 3:42; 1:50; 4:84; and 4:85.
Rabbis Broyde and Jachner are citing the same Iggerot Moshe Orach Chaim 4:84.
What's exactly at 4:84?
The text to which footnote 25 refers states:
> The Chazon Ish's position has aroused great debate among halachic scholars.
> The most vigorous and thorough critique of this position is found in the
> eleventh chapter of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach's work, the Minchat Shlomo.
> While Rabbi Auerbach advances numerous critiques of the Chazon Ish's
> position, the most crucial aspect of his criticism is that opening a circuit
> which is designed to be opened and closed routinely cannot be considered an
> act of building or destroying. [24] Closing a circuit is analogous to closing
> a door - an action which the halacha does not consider to be "building" since
> the door is intended to be opened and closed constantly. [25]
Footnote 24 is:
24. Rabbi Auerbach points out that all the outstanding authorities who
have discussed the issue of electricity prior to the Chazon Ish never
even alluded to the possibility that the completion of a circuit is an
act of building; see section III. In addition he states that there is
no prohibition in transforming a dead or useless object into a live or
useful object on Shabbat.
Eli Turkel continued:
> 3. Similarly R. Elyashiv (no source given) and R. Wosner (Shevet Halevi 8:47
> and 9:163).
>
> 4. R. Weisz in Michat Yitzchak sometimes treats it as a rabbinic prohibition
> and sometimes seems to be "choshesh" for the Chazon Ish.
These last three apparently were not too prominent in 1991.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Carl Singer <carl.singer@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 8,2010 at 07:16 PM
Subject: The frumkeit of our generation
David Tzohar in MJ 59#75 paraphrases what I said as follows:
> In MJ 59#73 Carl Singer wrote that the idea that our generation is more
> frum and more knowledgeable than former generations is shocking. On the
> contrary, our generation (let's say the last 30 years) is on a much higher
> level than former generations both in Israel and the U.S.A.
For the sake of accuracy what I said was (cutting & pasting directly from
MJ 59#73) :
>> It seems that even though we are yet another generation further away from
>> Sinai, we believe that the previous generation was neither as frum nor as
>> knowledgeable as ours....
David continues:
> There are more than 10,000 avreichim learning full time in kollelim,
> Thousands in Yeshivot and and day schools. Thousands of baleh battim learn
> daf yomi and other shiurim. Observance of mitzvot is on the rise and Reform
> and Conservative are on the wane. There is an amazing movement of baalei
> teshuva.
> The simple fact is that there has never been such a generation in the
> history of the Jewish People.
It is, indeed, wonderful that our numbers have grown as David notes in his
posting. But numbers reflect width, not depth. And depth to me includes not only
learning, but also emunah and yeras Shamayim.
There is little to be gained from comparing generations, other than the smug
self-satisfaction if we feel our generation is better.
On a tangent ---
I am ambivalent re: the statement that Reform & Conservative are on the
wane in that it reflects a "might makes right" / numbers mentality. Since much
of my volunteer work with Jewish War Veterans involves Jews who are not members
of orthodox synagogues I see folks who claim their zaydehs were frum, etc.
The shrinkage of Reform & Conservative is nothing to gloat over, nor to be
judgmental about. Although there are some baalei teshuvah -- the alternative is
assimilation. I see people who are mechalel Shabbos, eat 'kosher style" (which
is treif), etc., but they still go to their synagogues, they do chesed, their
children and grandchildren tend not to intermarry (because they socialize within
a Jewish community) -- the alternative, again is total assimilation.
Carl
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stuart Wise <Smwise3@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 8,2010 at 07:16 PM
Subject: The frumkeit of our generation
David Tzohar <davidtzohar@...> wrote (MJ 59#75):
> In MJ 59#73 Carl Singer wrote that the idea that our generation is more
> frum and more knowledgeable than former generations is shocking. On the
> contrary, our generation (let's say the last 30 years) is on a much higher
> level than former generations both in Israel and the U.S.A.
>
> There are more than 10,000 avreichim learning full time in kollelim,
> Thousands in Yeshivot and and day schools. Thousands of baleh battim learn
> daf yomi and other shiurim. Observance of mitzvot is on the rise and Reform
> and Conservative are on the wane. There is an amazing movement of baalei
> teshuva.
>
> The simple fact is that there has never been such a generation in the
> history of the Jewish People. This is one of the many signs that we are
> well into the period of the dawning of redemption, as Rav Kook ZTZL
> predicted almost 100 years ago.
>
> May it be the will of Hashem to complete the redemption and bring Mashiach
> speedily and in our days.
Posts like those of Mr. Singer and Mr. Tzohar infuriate me - -neither has
anything to support their assertions and it's losing discussion. I don't know
what possesses people to make unsubstantiated claims and just hope that no
one challenges them.
Having said that I would like to note, and this is not my observation, but
one I have heard from others, that for all the yeshivos and kollels, where
are the new gedolim who will lead us? Each generation it seems there are
fewer and fewer gedolim. With all those men learning, why have they not
emerged? Also, I would like to note that more people may be learning, thanks
to the proliferation of translations and commentary in many languages, but
it's a two-edged sword, for with everything spelled out, there is little
"omail b'Torah" -- toiling in Torah -- and perhaps that is why we have fewer
potential leaders. Also, the numbers do not reflect the ability or the level
of commitment of those in yeshiva and kollel. In kollel, in particular, from
what I have gathered, there is little accountability, no testing to see if
one is attaining and internalizing their Torah, and more than a few bench
warmers. Kollel has become a pathway to a lucrative marriage deal that will
allow a certain proportion of the population to put off working by engaging
in an honorable activity. Pardon my cynicism, but I have seen my share and
heard even more.
So as for the debate, I would say quantity wise, things are better, but
quality wise, previous generations may have it over us.
Stuart Wise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabbahillel@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 8,2010 at 07:16 PM
Subject: What is life threatening?
David Ziants <dziants@...> wrote (MJ 59#75):
> I wrote (MJ 59#74):
>
> 1) My wife fetched neighbour whilst I dialled 102 for ambulance ....
>
> Of course, this should have read:
>
> > 1) My wife fetched neighbour whilst I dialled 101 for ambulance ....
>
> 102 is the fire brigade; Sorry for the typo!
This reminds me of a news story about a young child who in Britain who
had learned about calling for emergency services from the television.
When an emergency appeared to occur, he quickly dialed 911, just as he
had learned from Sesame Street (or possibly from a police show).
Unfortunately, he was in England where the emergency number is 999.
Luckily, they did not need the ambulance.
I have also seen a post from Australia where they had to link "911" to
"000" (their emergency number) because so many people had learned from
American and Canadian TV to dial 911. They also had to be careful to
say "triple zero" because many people were hitting the letters "ooo"
(which is numeric "666" - please no jokes about the "number of the
beast").
Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
Date: Mon, Nov 8,2010 at 08:01 PM
Subject: What is life threatening?
Carl Singer wrote (MJ 59#73):
> Here's a quick example: Your kid trips and hits the edge of the table --
> there's an ever growing knot on his forehead and given that scalp wounds
> tend to bleed profusely, blood is gushing from his / her forehead.
> What do you do?
>
> I don't pretend to have an answer -- there are too many variables:
>
> Severity (this is after all a second hand story)
>
> Your ability to cope with this situation, specifically, and with
> emergencies in general - do you stay calm or panic. Is this your
> first child or number three and you've been here before.
>
> Availability of aid / alternatives. Is your next door neighbor an EMT?
> Do you have butterfly bandages in the house ....
This was a first-hand story for me. Some of our grandchildren were spending
Shabbat with us, and I took them to our local playground in the afternoon. The
playground was designed to be very safe, but the walk to and from was another
matter. There are large boulders in our development, and our grandkids are never
able to resist the climbing urge. Of course, one of them, the youngest, then
about eight years old, slipped and cracked his head on one such boulder. I
carried him home and inspected the damage. The wound was ugly but seemed to be
limited to the scalp. The bleeding was copious but the child was totally alert.
Since I was able to stop the bleeding, I decided against taking him to the
emergency room. I reasoned that as long as he kept still enough to avoid
reopening the wound, we could wait until after Shabbat and let his parents deal
with it. As you might imagine, I was already in trouble with his grandmother for
not being a more involved attendant, but after Shabbat I was also in trouble
with his parents for not taking him to the hospital immediately. I am not a
panic-y type, and did not believe it was necessary to interrupt a beautiful
Shabbat for what I judged to be a stabilized situation. Nevertheless, when his
parents came to retrieve their three boys after havdalah, the atmosphere was
frosty indeed. Lucky for me, my daughter called later that night to report that
their doctor-neighbor cleaned and sutured the wound, and most important for me,
said that the delay in receiving treatment was inconsequential. She apologized
for their earlier attitude, but I now believe that they were right, and I was
wrong. The delay in properly closing the wound could have resulted in infection
with unpredictable consequences. Since the child, now twelve, can beat me at
chess without too much effort, I thank HaShem for a good outcome. But we need to
be more aware that shmirat Shabbat should not make us stupid.
Bernie R.
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End of Volume 59 Issue 76
