Volume 61 Number 01
Produced: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:40:28 EDT
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Administrivia
[Mail-Jewish Mod. Team]
A Unique Iranian Custom?
[Stuart Pilichowski]
Anybody else notice Netanyahu's library? (2)
[Jack Stroh Yisrael Medad]
BASH (4)
[Joel Rich Stu Pilichowski Carl Singer Martin Stern]
BASH & Kaddish
[Martin Stern]
Mourner's kaddish by a non-mourner (3)
[Joel Rich Martin Stern Gershon Dubin]
Who asked you?
[Martin Stern]
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From: Mail-Jewish Mod. Team <MJ@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 03:01 PM
Subject: Administrivia
As is our custom, we are rolling on to a new digest after sending out issue 99.
Welcome to digest Volume 61!
A gentle reminder re our system for approvals, fully outlined at
http://mj.bu.edu/MjSubmissions.html (Process section, route 3c). If you receive a
message from Mail-Jewish which asks you to review edits made to your Mail-Jewish
submission, and you want that submission published, please do not ignore the
message -- if you approve the edits made to your submission, please respond
*without in any way changing the message*, and if you do not approve (and/or have
comments for the moderators re their edits), please respond with your comments.
Thank you, and if you have any comments re this "Administrivia" submission or the
manner in which this listserv is managed, please send a submission to <mj@...>
with subject "Re: Administrivia".
Sincerely,
The M-J Moderation Team
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From: Stuart Pilichowski <stupillow@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 04:01 PM
Subject: A Unique Iranian Custom?
Martin Stern wrote (MJ 60#97):
> Stuart Pilichowski wrote (MJ 60#96):
>> When the clock showed it was time for mincha to begin, I always made an
>> effort to convince the group that waiting for the Rabbi to arrive was more
>> important than starting on time. I told them, It's not as if he's watching
>> Jeopardy!
> Perhaps an allowance could be made for minchah in the summer, when people
> don't have to get back to work, but I am not sure that it is justifiable in
> the winter or for shacharit. When we set the times it is as if we are
> telling HKBH to expect us then. The Rabbi should know the starting time so
> why should he keep Him waiting?
The Rabbi is keeping Him/Her waiting because he's busy with important matters,
again not because he's watching reruns of Seinfeld. I'm 1000% sure HKBH wouldn't
mind waiting for the Rabbi to complete his important work (avodas hakodesh) even
at the risk of delaying tefillah a few minutes. I think HKBH would certainly be
mevatail (cancel) the respect normally afforded Him/Her.
>> Nowadays in Israel ... I like to start late if someone has to say kaddish
>> and we don't have a minyan at the announced time.
> A case of the tail (kaddish) wagging the dog (tefillah)! I hope Stuart would
> not keep the minyan waiting for a late kaddish-soger to come -- as our old
> gabbai used to say, "If you want to be an aveil you have to come on time!"
Perhaps he has misunderstood me. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. The kaddish-soger
/ aveil is already there. I'm holding off from starting until we get a minyan so
kaddish can be recited instead of starting tefillah and skipping kaddish because
of the latecomers.
Stuart
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From: Jack Stroh <jackstroh@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 04:01 PM
Subject: Anybody else notice Netanyahu's library?
Re Michael Frankel's observation (MJ 60#99), I noticed the same thing. I also
was shocked and surprised. But then again, his son is a Tanach champion!
Jack Stroh
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From: Yisrael Medad <yisrael.medad@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 11:01 PM
Subject: Anybody else notice Netanyahu's library?
As for Michael Frankel's discovery regarding Netanyahu's library (MJ 60#99), I
have been in the PM's office when Begin, Shamir and Netanyahu (First Time)
occupied it. Sifrei Kodesh were present on the shelves. And Bibi has recently
renewed the Ben-Gurion and Begin custom of Bible study.
Yisrael Medad
Shiloh
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From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 03:01 PM
Subject: BASH
Chaim Casper wrote (MJ 60#99):
> Martin Stern (MJ 60 #98) correctly writes:
>> one may not walk in front of someone who is in the middle of the Amida[h].
>> Most explain this prohibition as disturbing the davener. But according to
>> some sources, the reason is that it is disrespectful to the Sh'china, the
>> Divine Presence, which "stands" in front of the davener.
>
> This is the halakhah (O.H. 102:4; the Mishneh Brurah mentions both of
> Martin's explanations). I have also noticed this quite often first hand
> as people who are late for davening (or, in the case of Musaf, have
> stepped outside because they didn't want to hear the d'var torah, so when
> they come rushing back in for musaf) will stop and daven just inside the
> door to the shul. Thus, the people who are inside shul who want to exit
> to the lobby cannot do so because that would require them to walk in
> front of someone who is davening the Amidah.
I have heard R' H. Schachter allow passing in this case under the category of
someone not being able to forbid something that is not his.
KT
Joel Rich
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From: Stu Pilichowski <cshmuel@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 03:01 PM
Subject: BASH
What's wrong with posting a sign or many signs - A B I G S I G N - in a
few languages if necessary, DON'T BLOCK THE DOORWAY DURING TEFILLAH !!!
And what happened to the ushers and sshushers? Insert this into their job
description. (I understand Machon Zomet is soon releasing their Shabbat
Taser specifically for talkers and door-blockers in shul.)
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From: Carl Singer <carl.singer@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 04:01 PM
Subject: BASH
I had previously heard the story re: Reb Moishe, ztl. brought by Chaim Casper
(MJ 60#99).
But I also heard a contrasting story -- which I cannot locate / verify via
search. That is a young man standing and davening in the aisle (rather than in
front of his shtender) and a Rosh Yeshiva physically moving him so others might
get to their seats.
As I mentioned in my previous posting, our small synagogue has some "choke
points". If, for example, one chooses to stand in front of the entrance door, one
precludes anyone else from entering the men's section.
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 11:01 PM
Subject: BASH
Chaim Casper wrote (MJ 60#99):
> I have also noticed this quite often first hand as people who are late for
> davening (or, in the case of Musaf, have stepped outside because they didn't
> want to hear the d'var torah, so when they come rushing back in for musaf)
> will stop and daven just inside the door to the shul. Thus, the people who
> are inside shul who want to exit to the lobby cannot do so because that would
> require them to walk in front of someone who is davening the Amidah.
Chaim's case falls under the category of a "bur birshut harabbim [an ignoramus in
the public space]" - a pun on the discussion in Bava Kamma of one of the major
causes of damage for which someone may be liable, "bor birshut harabbim [pit in
the public space]", the words bur and bor being spelt the same apart from the
position of the dot on the vav in the middle.
Martin Stern
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 11:01 PM
Subject: BASH & Kaddish
Menashe Elyashiv wrote (MJ 60#99):
> There are 2 proper ways for saying the mourners' Kaddish:
>
> Askenazim - one mourner says it
>
> Sefaradim - all mourners say in unison
>
> The BASH way is to have a "horse race", i.e., all mourners say Kaddish
> but not in unison.
The origin of the change by most Askenazim is in the observation by R.
Yaakov Emden that, where there were fewer kaddeishim than people who felt
entitled to say them, people came to blows. He observed that, in his
opinion, the Sefardi practice, with which he was familiar from when his
father was rav in Sarajevo, was preferable since it avoided such unseemly
behaviour. What he had not realised was that Sefardim are accustomed to
reciting all the tefillot in unison whereas Askenazim are not - hence the
"horse race".
> There is no obligation to say Kaddish that is not answered.
Is it called a kaddish yatom [orphan kaddish] because it is a kaddish said
by an orphan or because it is itself the orphan?
Martin Stern
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From: Joel Rich <JRich@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 03:01 PM
Subject: Mourner's kaddish by a non-mourner
Chaim Casper wrote (MJ 60#99):
> As to the concept of al tiftach peh lesatan (do not open [your] mouth to
> the Satan): I didn't see it mentioned in the Be'er Hetev, the Mishneh Brurah
> or O.H. itself. My apologies if I missed it.
Chaim didn't miss it - it's not there. It appeared in a write up by the OU Vebbe
Rebbe without a source indicated.
KT
Joel Rich
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Mon, Jul 23,2012 at 04:01 PM
Subject: Mourner's kaddish by a non-mourner
Chaim Casper wrote (MJ 60#99):
> This is a constant challenge to me. Husbands want to observe the yahrzeits of
> their wives' parents. But they have no hiyyuv (obligation) to do so! So if
> I don't give them an aliyah on the Shabbat before the yahrzeit or ask them to
> daven on the day of the yahrzeit I will hear about it big time.
I hope that this does not mean making endless hosafot [supernumerary aliyot],
which some shuls that have not heard of tircha detzibbura [troubling the
congregation] seem to delight in doing. Oh! the problems of being a communal
rabbi with a not-too-learned community.
Martin Stern
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From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Tue, Jul 24,2012 at 01:01 PM
Subject: Mourner's kaddish by a non-mourner
Martin Stern wrote (MJ 60#99):
> I told him how I, as an aveil, had once been in a similar position
> many years ago in a different shul, coming for ma'ariv before the minyan had
> finished minchah, and was asked to say this kaddish since there was nobody
> more suitable.
I was in this situation many times, since I regularly daven in my local
"minyan factory" and often come when the previous minyan is still in
progress.
I asked my rov what to do (during the year that I was saying kaddish) and he
said that if I did not daven in that minyan, I should not say kaddish for
them.
If there are no chiyuvim davening with the minyan, anyone in the minyan,
including but not limited to the chazan, can say it.
This is the pesak I was given.
Gershon Dubin
<gershon.dubin@...>
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From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, Jul 24,2012 at 05:01 AM
Subject: Who asked you?
Carl Singer wrote (MJ 60#99):
> There are welcome suggestions -- If I'm in the store and reaching for a
> product -- I appreciate someone telling me "that product" is now milchig.
>
> In contrast to welcome suggestions -- there are the "who asked you"
> exporters of chumrahs.
While I agree with Carl regarding unsolicited chumrahs, I wonder if anyone
has thought about why we are witnessing their proliferation nowadays. One
thought that has occurred to me is that it is a consequence of the way Jews
from different parts of the world are now living together in mixed
communities.
What had previously been local chumrahs are now becoming known to those
originating from other areas and so, for those who are particularly careful,
there is a tendency to go for the "Greatest Common Multiple", i.e. try to be
yotsei lechol hadei'ot [be correct according to all opinions] and take on
those of other people.
This contrasts to the trend in some other sectors to go for the "Least
Common Factor", i.e. try to find a leniency at all costs.
Which is the religiously preferable option is open to dispute.
Any comments?
Martin Stern
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End of Volume 61 Issue 1
