Volume 19 Number 92 Produced: Wed Jun 7 10:18:58 1995 Subjects Discussed In This Issue: Clarification [Zvi Weiss] Divre Yoel at YU [Shalom Carmy] Fleishig airline meals during 9 days [Jonathan Straight] Gambling [David Olesker] Gehinnom (Was: Re: Marriages of Minor Daughters) [Art Kamlet] How Crowded were the Camps? [Andy Goldfinger] Notes from convention in Lakewood yeshiva [Simon Streltsov] Percentage of First Born [Eliyahu Teitz] Salt on the Challah on Friday Night [Oren Popper] Sefer Hazikaron for Rav Moshe Feinstein [Michael J Broyde] Tenaim [Erwin Katz] The origin of the Cantillations [M. Linetsky] Tzdaka opportunity [Malka Goldberg] Vegetarian Foods and Kashrus [Laurie Solomon] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 12:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Clarification I believe that I may have been misunderstood. I have always thought that a p'sak is very tailored to the *circumstances* of the individual question. In that respect, Eli Turkel is absolutely correct. However, I do not equate the need to be careful as to the *circumstances* of the question as being identical with the notion of "circles" -- somehow implying that the p'sak is tailored to one's "political" or "group" leanings. In that respect, I disagree... *based upon the circumstances*, the p'sak applies to anyone with those same circumstancs. In the example cited, if a "Me'ah She'arim boy" had expressed an interest in serving a "Young Israel" community, I see no reason to question the notion that *for those circumstances*, Rav Shlomo Zalman ZT"L would have endorsed college (or told the boy that he was making an "incompatible" career choice -- if such a boy was really unable to handle college). In many (if not most) cases, IMHO, there is little practical distinction, however. --Zvi. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@...> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 17:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Divre Yoel at YU A poster alleges that Kol Dodi Dofek is not read at Ponivezh. I don't know of anyone at Ponivezh who has read the Rav zt"l's works (except for R. Schach who, I am informed, is interested only in the purely halakhic writings). It is hard to imagine that in an institution of that size there will not be found a few intrepid souls. Every once in a while I get inquiries from various individuals (often in positions of authority) within the black hat and Hasidic world. These people are studying, usually surreptitiously, books "on the index." Their exposure may be limited and naive (hence the desire for occasional guidance), and the lack of previous exposure may lead to unnecessary crises. But curiosity is natural to intelligent people. The same poster is unsure whether the works of the Satmar Rebbe, z"l are studied at YU. Here I am on surer ground. I have quoted his works on occasion, both in class and in private. I also delivered a lecture at Yale, several years ago, on the Satmar Rebbe's interpretation of the Moreh Nevukhim. Several YU alumni were present, and none indicated any objection. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Straight <jonathan@...> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 95 17:13:23 Subject: Re: Fleishig airline meals during 9 days I think Mr Werchutz will find there is little problem in specifying vegetatarian or fish kosher airline food. As the meals will need to be specially ordered anyway then specify this when booking. Jonathan Straight <Jonathan@...> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Olesker <olesker@...> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 00:42:42 +0300 Subject: Re: Gambling The recent dicussion reminds me of an incident when I was a bochur. My chvrusa and I approached our Gemara rebbi with the question "Is gambling permitted?" As expected he said "No!", at wich point I turned to my chreusa and said "See, I told you so, that's fifty shekels you owe me!" You should have seen my Rebbi's face (8-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <ask@...> (Art Kamlet) Date: 6 Jun 1995 9:47 EDT Subject: Gehinnom (Was: Re: Marriages of Minor Daughters) <sbechhof@...> (Yosef Bechhofer) writes: > For the record, I would like to state clearly and categorically >that, IMHO, there is an extra special place in Gehinnom (I leave it for >our Moderator to decide whether that term may be translated precisely on >MJ) [I'll guess that most people know and for those who don't, drop me a >line. Mod] for fathers so evil V.... Why make a big deal about Gehinnom? I live in Columbus, about 2 miles from Gahanna, Ohio. Gahanna is the English name applied to Gehinnom, and I've asked folks who live there what Gahanna means, and the best I've gotten was "It's a Biblical Name." Gahanna also has signs as you enter, which say, "Welcome To Gahanna, The herb capital of the world." Art Kamlet AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus <a.s.kamlet@...> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andy Goldfinger <andy_goldfinger@...> Date: 6 Jun 1995 11:52:01 +0200 Subject: How Crowded were the Camps? It seems to me from the numbers in Numbers (BaMidbar) that the camps were fairly crowded. The total area of the camps of the twelve shvatim (tribes) was 4 x 2000 x 2000 = 16 million square amos (cubits) -- excluding the central area occupied by the Leveim (Levites). There were 603,550 adult males inhabiting this area, along with their families. Assuming that each male was married and the head of a family, this comes to 26.5 square amos per family, equivalent to a square 5.15 amos on a side (about 7.5 feet). This is not a lot of space. It must have been pretty crowded. Has anyone seen anything about this in the meforshim (commentaries?). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <simon1@...> (Simon Streltsov) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 12:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Notes from convention in Lakewood yeshiva I transcribed some of the talks at the convention for Russians at Lakewood Yeshiva (March,95) [ Rav Kotler, Novominsker Rebbe, Rav Eiseman]. to retrieve use the web server or send a message get russian-jews log9506 to <listserv@...> (reply to this message is configured there!) Simcha Streltsov to subscribe send Moderator of Russian-Jews List sub russian-jews <fullname> <simcha@...> to listproc@shamash.nysernet.org archives via WWW: gopher://shamash.nysernet.org:70/hh/lists/russian-jews via gopher: shamash.nysernet.org Path=1/lists/russian-jews ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <EDTeitz@...> (Eliyahu Teitz) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 13:45:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Percentage of First Born Abraham Lebowitz raised some interesting question concerning the relatively small number of first born in the general Jewish population. One possible answer can be based on a medrash concerning the number of Jews who left Egypt. The pasuk states ( Shmot 13:18 ) va-chamushim alu B'nei Yisrael. The medrash claims that the word chamushim can be understood as 1/5, that only 20% of the Jews left Egypt, the rest dying during the darkness according to the Medrash ( or possibly left behind as totally assimilated Egyptian - Jewishly dead in the darkness of Egyptian culture ). While it is likely that the percentages were the same make up as the 20% who left Egypt, it is possible that a larger percentage of first born were left behind ( maybe large families had a stronger support system and were less apt to succumb to the draw of Egyptian culture ). Eliyahu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oren Popper <opopper@...> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 11:17:42 -0400 (edt) Subject: Re: Salt on the Challah on Friday Night In M-J V.19 #81 Jeffrey Woolf <F12043@...> wrote: > .... Thus, since Hallah is generally made with salt, salt need not > be added. As a result, the only time you NEED to put salt on bread is > Pesach because matzot are baked without salt. It may be remarked here that it is customary NOT to put salt on the Matza eaten at the Seder in order not to have anything overwhelm the taste of the Matzas Mitzvah Oren Popper <opopper@...> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 14:50:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sefer Hazikaron for Rav Moshe Feinstein I was told that there was a sefer published by MTJ as a sefer hazikaron to Rav Moshe Feinstein that contains a teshuva by him on tochacha issues. Does anyone have the sefer (and would you consider faxing me the article at 404 727-6820 or mailing it to me at School of Law, Emory University, Atlanta, GA 30322). I will summarize the teshuva on mail.jewish if someone will send it to me. Michael Broyde ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ERWIN_KATZ_at_~<7BK-ILN-CHICAGO@...> (Erwin Katz) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 95 14:54:45 CST Subject: Tenaim In reading the various statements about Tenaim I thought you might be interested in what happened at my brother's wedding. I entered into Tenaim four months before my wedding. My brother let it go until the wedding itself. At the wedding were both Harav Moshe Feinstein and Harav Eliezer Silver. Harav Silver refused to allow Tenaim to be written just before the wedding (presumably on the theory that they were then meaningless). Harav Moshe Feinstein stated we should proceed with the Tenaim if the chasan wanted to. Harav Silver left for fifteen minutes or so in order to accommodate the family and the tenaim proceeded. Both Rabbanim participated in the Chupa. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: 81920562%<TAONODE@...> (M. Linetsky) Date: Fri 02 Jun 1995 08:31 ET Subject: The origin of the Cantillations In Vol 84 there was a message about the cantillations, their origin and behaviour. There are many different theories about the origin of the cantillations. Rabbi Joseph ibn Kaspi, for example maintained that they were determined by `Anshe Kenesth Haggedhola , while Rabbi Judah ibn Bal'am (in an Arabic section of his original to Horayoth Haqqore) seems to attribute them an even later origin. However, I do not understand how one can consider the cantillations to be deterministic as there are clearly areas where two cantillations could syntactically appear and as Rabbi Mordechai Breuer claims, it may be simply for musical considertaions. The cantillations are know also to adjust for the sake of uniformity with the proximate passages i.e. that if a few passage have a similar cantillational make-up, a passage which is slightly different in structure may mimic this pattern. This may also be due to musical considerations. However, though it may be true that the cantillatons serve as syntactical dividers, the idea of syntax as seen by the Masoretes is not the same as ours, the units are different. Therefore, the cantillations do not always divide the passage in accordance to normative syntactic rules and therefore may not always be used to prove the correct understanding of the passage. Ibn Ezra for instance, who states in his book Maznaim: any interpretation that does not conform to the cantillations do not listen to and do not sway to it". Yet he admits in many places that a passage may be divided in contradiction (so called) to normative division of the cantillations. By the way, the art scroll book on Rabbi Ya'akov Kaminetsky claims that he was able to insert the correct cantillations into any passage just by knowing the rules. I am not certain how this is possible HAG SAMEAH and Tel Hai Michael Linetsky ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <goldberg@...> (Malka Goldberg) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 16:25:23 +0200 (WET) Subject: Tzdaka opportunity There is a family in Jerusalem that is in great need of money. The couple's only child, after several years of marriage, is a 5 month old baby with Stickler's syndrome. The baby has a hole in the heart, cleft palate, clubbed feet and due to the cleft palate, has a tracheotomy for breathing and a gastro-intestinal tube for eating. The baby is relatively stable and will undergo surgery as soon as he has gained sufficient weight. Indeed, the prognosis for recovery is very good. Meanwhile, he is at home, where he requires 24 hour a day supervision--mostly to ensure the tracheotomy is clear--suction being required sometimes. The couple have been taking turns staying up all night. Now they would like to hire a nurse for 6-8 hours a night, four nights a week. The rough cost is somewhere between 3000-4000 SHEKELS a month. I have been asking people for a monthly portion of their ma'aser money, and have so far obtained some 1800 shekels a month. I am now turning to mail-jewish to raise additional funds. Even a small contribution that people could make on a monthly basis would be helpful. Anyone who wishes to contribute should please contact me via my husband's email, <goldberg@...>, or can call me, Malka, at 02-430-251, for further details. The baby's name is Yisrael Meir ben Bracha Yona Tamar. Malka Goldberg ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laurie Solomon <0002557272@...> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 11:22 EST Subject: RE: Vegetarian Foods and Kashrus Another concern for eating vegetarian foods/at restaurants without a hechshar (supervision) is that vegetables, herbs, legumes and many grains have to be checked for bugs. In fact, in many restaurants, the main job of the mashgiach (kosher supervisor) is cheking the lettuce,chinese cabbage, etc. That's why it's not a good idea to eat at a non-kosher restaurant or non-supervised restaurant, and "just eat salad". In fact, this may even be a problem with shomer kashrus people, and eating salad in their homes...if they have not learned and aren't careful in this aspect of kashrus. Laurie Cohen (<0002557272@...>) ----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Volume 19 Issue 92