Volume 26 Number 94
Produced: Tue Aug 5 7:19:44 1997
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Bycycle on Shabbat
[Daniel Israel]
Hotel Key Cards and Shabbat
[J. BenEzra]
Karnei foro / Yerach ben Yomo
[I. Harvey Poch]
Marriage and Deaf-Mute
[Daniel Israel]
New Beged for Baal Tokeah
[I. Harvey Poch]
Odd Trups
[Ezriel Krumbein]
R' Orlofsky tapes - Area code correction
[Daniel Eidensohn]
Shabbos - Hotels
[Carl Singer]
Shalom Aleichem
[Boruch Merzel]
Teamim and OpenMindedness
[Russell Hendel]
Torah Tapes
[Rose Landowne]
Torah tapes (2)
[Aaron D. Gross, Tzadik and Sheva Vanderhoof]
Trop
[Daniel Malament]
Unusual trops
[Joshua M Hoexter]
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From: Daniel Israel <daniel@...>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:01:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Bycycle on Shabbat
Regarding Akiva Miller's comment:
> 1) If a bicycle is muktza at all, I imagine it would be in the category
> of kli she'melachto l'issur (things normally used for prohibited
> purpose), and we are allowed to use such items on Shabbos for a
> *permissible* purpose if no non-muktza item is available.
I am not sure that this arguement is internally consistent. If riding
the bicycle is a permissible purpose, then how can it be kli sh'melacto
l'issur? This approach seems to be a common one with regards to
bicylces, namely: it is assur to ride because of muktzeh and it is
muktzeh because it is assur to ride.
Daniel M. Israel I am not the sort of person that goes to bed
<daniel@...> at night thinking, "Gee, I wonder what I can
University of Arizona do to make life difficult for systems
Tucson, AZ administrators." -Eric Allman, author:sendmail
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From: <NklsNdimes@...> (J. BenEzra)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 18:08:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Hotel Key Cards and Shabbat
In a message dated Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:20:42 -0400 (EDT), <jarovner@...>
(Jay Rovner) writes:
<< In travelling, we have been finding that hotels use key
cards. I guess that the mechanism works mechanically, but there is
usually a small light that goes on or changes color when the card is
inserted in the lock. (One can leave the key card at the desk before
going out, but getting back in is a problem, especially where ID must be
shown to get the card.) As far as the lock goes,
1. How does one unlock the door without violating shabbat prohibitions?
(I understand that one could always ask a staff member to open the door,
but that is not always practical since there may not be someone who is
free to help, and it is not always clear that they are not jewish.)
2. Should one take anything other than the light into consideration in
terms of shabbat prohibitions?
>>
I travel extensively, and have stayed in some pretty far-away places. I
always explain to the hotel manager that I am a religious Jew and cannot
operate the lock on my door during Shabbat. I have never been anywhere,
where there was NOT a porter or some person working in the hotel who
could unlock my door for me during Shabbat, no matter what hour of the
day or not. True, some hotel managers thought I was nuts, but when I
explain that it is for religious reasons, they always accomodate me.
J. BenEzra
<NklsNdimes@...>
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From: I. Harvey Poch <af945@...>
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 08:11:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Karnei foro / Yerach ben Yomo
While I don't have a copy handy to verify, I believe the Hertz Chumash,
published by Soncino, has musical notes for all the *trop* printed at the
back of the volume. If I remember correctly, these would follow a yekkish
minhag, but would be pretty close to any other. It would surprise me
greatly if these notes would support any of the comparisons to other trop.
I. Harvey Poch (:-)>
<af945@...>
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From: Daniel Israel <daniel@...>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:41:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Marriage and Deaf-Mute
Robert Book asks:
> In a related vein, how could a cheresh get married? A male needs to
> say "Harei at ..." and a female needs to hear it and consent.
In principle one can be married by kesef [money], sh'tar [document], or
bi'ah [sexual relations]. (The last is prohibited d'rabbanan.)
Our normal practice is kesef, which requires the man to give the woman
an item worth at least a prutah [a certain small amount], and say "Harei
at m'kudeshes..." Marrige by sh'tar requires the man to give the woman
a document in which he has written "Harei at m'kudeshes li b'sh'tar zu"
[Behold, you are married to me with this document]. (Note that the
value of this document may be less then a prutah, and that this is not
the kesuvah [marrige contract].)
In principle I see no reason this approach could not be used. Does
anyone know if it is done in practice?
Daniel M. Israel I am not the sort of person that goes to bed
<daniel@...> at night thinking, "Gee, I wonder what I can
University of Arizona do to make life difficult for systems
Tucson, AZ administrators." -Eric Allman, author:sendmail
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: I. Harvey Poch <af945@...>
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 08:06:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: New Beged for Baal Tokeah
Having been a baal tokeah for over 30 years, I'd like to reply to a
previous note by saying that I am not makpid to wear something new on the
second day of Rosh Hashanah. I am really saying the brachos for the
congregation as well as myself. It's a pretty safe assumption that there
is ALWAYS someone there on the second day who has not heard tekiyos on the
first day, and needs the shehecheyanu. It doesn't matter whether the
congregation is large or small, frum or less so - there's always someone.
I. Harvey Poch (:-)>
<af945@...>
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From: Ezriel Krumbein <ezsurf@...>
Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 23:31:31 -0700
Subject: re: Odd Trups
In response to Art Werschulz's query about Karnaei Para and Yerach ben
yomo. I have a sefer called Taamim uMashmautam BaMikra by Moshe Levin
or Lewin. Jerusalem 573"8. The Author's address PO box 28068 Tel Aviv.
I purchased it not long ago in Brooklyn so it may still be available.
The author explains (page 42) that this trup is made up of two trups the
Tlisha gedola and the tlisha ketana . The Tlisha gedola signifies
something that came out early and disappeared. Opposite this the tlisha
ketana siginifys a body or thing that is rapidly (or early in)
approaching. Therefore the Karnei para signifies something that appears
suddenly and disappears right away. This is similar to a spinning
wheel. That when one side goes down the the other side rises, and then
it continues to spin over again.
In general the thing appearing suddenly, the sudden diappearance and the
passing, are made around a central point; it is as if the this central
point spreads to all sides the things that come near it from the left
and and pushes them to the right.
The trup yerach be yomo always preceeds the karnei para and it also
relates to something that disappears right away. It refers to the moon
that right after it appears for a short while on Rosh Chodesh it sets.
These trups appear 16 times in Tanach: Bamidbar 35:5 Joshua 19:51 Kings
II 10:5 Jermiah 13:13, 38:25 Yechezkel 48:21 Esther 7:9 Ezra 6:9
Nechemia 1:6, 5:13, 13:5 Chron. I 28:1 Chron. II 24:5, 35:7 [note: these
are all the places he lists]
In explanation of the pasuk in Bamidbar he says: The measurement was
made around the city, like a circle turning on its axle. The measurers
come and pass from place to place and do not stop at any one place, it
is understood, that the city is the central point, around it the
measurement is taken.
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From: Daniel Eidensohn <yadmoshe@...>
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 09:48:06 -0700
Subject: Re: R' Orlofsky tapes - Area code correction
In America - the Long Island NCSY sells them (phone 518- 868 0500)
Correction - Area code for Long Island is 516.
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From: Carl Singer <CARLSINGER@...>
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 97 18:36:20 UT
Subject: Shabbos - Hotels
(1) Many hotels have "manual" doors in some rooms -- frequently rooms
that serve dual purpose (as small banquet / demo rooms) and sleeping
rooms. Also older hotels or older wings of some hotels have plain keys.
On those very rare occasions that I spend Shabbos in a hotel I was
always able to find an appropriate lock.
(2) It is a sakoneh (I'm discussing the metziah -- I don't pasken) to
have an unlocked door under any circumstances. Theft is an issue but
personal danger is more relevant.
Carl Singer
<csinger@...>
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From: <BoruchM@...> (Boruch Merzel)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 14:18:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Shalom Aleichem
Michael Benklifa asks concerning the use of the plural form *Shalom
Aleichem* when greeting someone.
Many years ago I saw an explanation in an old Sefer, that it was a
greeting to both the *nefesh* and the *guf*. Thus wishing one well both
physically and spiritually.
Another simple, and logical, explanation is that in days gone by people
always traveled in groups, for reasons of safety. Therefore, travelers
were greeted as a group when they arrived at an inn or came to their
final destinination. Thus *Shalom Aleicem*, *Peace to (all of) you*
became the standard form of greeting.
The reason for responding by reversing the phrase i.e. *Aleichem Shalom*
is based on a Gemorrah in Brochos at the bottom of 6b: To some one
overhearing one saying to another, *Aleichem shalom* it would be obvious
that it was a response and not the initial greeting, thus requiring no
further response and no one would be suspect of being a *gazlan*.
Aleichem Shalom
Boruch Merzel
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From: <rhendel@...> (Russell Hendel)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:28:03 -0400
Subject: Teamim and OpenMindedness
The recent discussions on rare Teamim reminded me of the rarity in Deut
1:4--ETH SICHON--it "looks like" a mahpach pashtah but it really is a
Yethiv Pashtah (The cantillation on the eth is a yethiv not a mahpach).
In fact the mesorah says that there are 11 times in Tenach when a Yethiv
appears before a Pashtah (and therefore looks like a mahpach).
But what struck me is how this is being dealt with TODAY. The KORAIN
Tenach actually "changed" the "traditional" appearance of the Yethiv so
that >>readers should not be confused between the two teamim>>
Isn't that remarkable? A 1000 year tradition on Teamim notation is
changed >>to make it more readable>> and no one (not even from the so
called Charedi community) objected or raised a storm.
The reason I am bringing this up is that a frequent theme in Postings is
>>Why can't Orthodoxy adjust..>> >>Why can't this change...>>
I think what Korain did shows that change of sacred traditions is
possible IF THERE ARE SOUND REASONS. How far this applies is another
question, but I believe there is room to change some of our opinions on
"closedmindedness due to tradition" when we see examples such as this.
I am interested in reactions to this observation. Are there other
examples in other areas like it? Am I perhaps overlooking something
exceptional which made the change more palatable here? Am I
overgeneralizing in my statements that "traditionalists" are open
minded?
Russell Jay Hendel; PH.d; ASA; rhendel @ mcs drexel edu
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From: <ROSELANDOW@...> (Rose Landowne)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:19:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Torah Tapes
Drisha Institute has tapes, mostly on Tanach and holidays by Rabbi David
Silber. Contact them at <DRISHA@...>
Rose Landowne
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From: Aaron D. Gross <adg@...>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 11:00:09 -0700
Subject: Torah tapes
>From: Marty <docmarty@...>
>I live in Israel and am looking for sources for audio tapes on torah
>topics, especially gemara. I would appreciate references for local
>sources, mail sources, internet sources, E-mail, etc. If this is not
>appropriate for posting to the group, it would be OK to contact me
>directly.
Try www.613.org. They have hundreds of hours of shiurim online.
--- Aaron D. Gross -- http://www.pobox.com/~adg
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From: Tzadik and Sheva Vanderhoof <stvhoof@...>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 22:33:18 +0300
Subject: Re: Torah tapes
Check out Kol HaDaf. They have several offices in Israel including
Jerusalem and Bnei Brak. I've only been to the one in Jerusalem. It's
located on Sdei Chemed St. in Geula, which is parallel to Malchei
Yisrael St., about 2 blocks toward Yaffo Rd.
They have tapes for all of Shas, one daf per hour tape, available in
English, Yiddish, or Hebrew. I recommend it highly. It's a bit
expensive to actually buy the tapes, but they have a trade-in policy
that makes it very reasonable, once you buy your first set.
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From: Daniel Malament <danielm@...>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:45:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Trop
It's a *shalshelet* which is sung as three pazerim - I had one of the
three or four in Chumash in my sidrah. This also brings into question
the statement of the poster who referred to the Karnei Parah as a "pazer
gedolah".
-Dan
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From: Joshua M Hoexter <hoexter@...>
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:37:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Unusual trops
> From: Barry Best <bb01019@...>
> Someone mentioned that the Karnay Farah is sung as a T'lishah G'dolah
> and a T'lishah K'tanah. I was taught that it is sung as three Pazers.
I was taught that Karnay Farah is similar to a Pazer and a T'lisha
G'dola. (I think I have seen T'lisha G'dola and T'lisha K'tana also.)
I was taught that Shalsheles is sung similarly to three Pazers.
> I was also taught that a Merchah Ch'hulah is sung as two T'virs but have
> heard recently from a good authority that it has a unique sound (not a
I learned that Mercha Ch'fula has a unique sound:
f (up p5)c (down m2)b (up m2)c (up M2)d (down M2)c
mer-cha ch'fu la -- -- -- -- -- ah
Does anyone have a good source (aural or written) for Yerach ben Yomo? I
learned it as "Yerach ben Yomo, ich vais nisht" (Y ben Y, I don't know)
similarly to an esnachta or sof pasuk.
Josh Hoexter (<hoexter@...>)
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End of Volume 26 Issue 94
