Volume 30 Number 33 Produced: Sun Dec 12 10:45:30 US/Eastern 1999 Subjects Discussed In This Issue: Definitions of Frum Communities [Chaim Wasserman] Origin of Maoz Tzur tune [Warren Burstein] Where would you like to live? (5) [Alan Davidson, Shoshana L. Boublil, Stuart Wise, Carl Singer, Hadassa Goldsmith] Yehudit; Megillat Antiochus [Gitelle Rapoport] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chaim Wasserman <Chaimwass@...> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:33:32 EST Subject: Re: Definitions of Frum Communities Joel Rich writes that the "sociological definition of frum" and the "theoretical definition of frum: may be two different entities. In fact, communities - frum or not - are build around the dynamic of society that have little or nothing to do with being frum. In other words, there is something more fundamental and basic on which frum communities are built. That foundation is applicable almost anywhere and serves as the ground floor of understanding anything about frum community dynamics. To try to explain this away semantically or even deny this is being fanciful or even naive. Certain basic rules and formulae of community organization are almost as precise as mathematical equations. chaim wasserman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Warren Burstein <warren@...> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 01:26:37 Subject: Re: Origin of Maoz Tzur tune If we're discussing the tune of Maoz Tzur, perhaps we could also discuss the words. The first stanza includes the words "l'et tachin matbeach letzar hamnabeach". I don't have any English translations of that, but Rinat Yisrael explains "matbeach" as "tevach" (slaughter), so does R. Alcalay's Hebrew-English dictionary translate it as "slaughter, massacre". That would make the line read "when You will slaughter the blaspheming enemy". While I am sure that there are many people who wholeheartedly endorse that hope, am I alone in having some reservations? While this isn't the only prayer asking for retribution, I can't think of any other that is sung so cheerfully. I would be more than content were God to have the enemy stop harming us, and leave the decision of what punishment the enemy deserves entirely up to God. Perhaps someone has a different translation? Interestingly, the only English translation that I have of the siddur is "The Authorised Daily Prayer Book, Revised Edition", by Rabbi Joseph H. Hertz, the Chief Rabbi of the British Empire. By Authorised, I understand it to have been the siddur used in British shuls. It replaces the words in question with "l'et tashbit matbeach, vtzar hamnabeach" - "when You will cause slaughter to cease, and the blaspheming enemy". Was this modification used, and is it still in use, in British shuls? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Davidson <perzvi@...> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:05:18 PST Subject: Where would you like to live? Actually (speaking as a Sociologist) the sociological definition of frum is probably anybody who calls themselves frum (including such ridiculous cases like I heard about last weekend of a person who drove to shul and upon walking into shul put on a gartel). As for New York being more receptive to diversity it is probably true. In Flatbush, almost anything goes -- regardless of derech or particular minhagim you can find a shul somewhere which honors your desires with a minimum of political conflict. I don't know if you can say the same about Crown Heights, Williamsburg, Manhattan, Queens, Staten Island where the Orthodox communities are a little more inclusive historically (in terms of type of frum community which has lived there). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shoshana L. Boublil <toramada@...> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:44:24 +0200 Subject: Where would you like to live? I've read with interest the various replies to this question. When I think of the various communities I've lived in over the years, I think there are a few basic considerations: 1) Heve Dan Et HaAdam LeKaf Zechut - to be open minded. While Halacha is set for the community, we do know that rabbis have the authority to take individual situations into consideration when paskening. We also know that there is no "one way" to become close to Hashem, rather each person has his/her own duty to perform in life and his/her own way of becoming close. A community which demanded that everyone be the same would be anathema to me. Perhaps b/c I have always been "different" (not many female chemists/physicists/software-embedded systems engineers out there), and one of the hardest things was finding myself "defending" my choices to people who really didn't have the right to criticize - but did so nonetheless. The same goes for schools, when there is only one answer to a philosophical question or only 1 way to draw a subject, this is close-mindness of the worst degree, and I wouldn't want my kids learning in such a school. 2) Caring. There are many sources from Pirkei Avot I could quote, but what I'm talking about is 2 opposite issues: the first is not sticking your nose in your neighbours' pots. The other is to be willing to assist and offer assistance when it is needed. There is a fine line to walk between these 2 extremes. When we lived in Yamit, we experienced this among the Kollel couples: a neighbour going to the market would offer to do shopping for others who they knew was busy with other matters, to the point of putting milk produce in the friends' refrigerator so she wouldn't have to come and pick it up. I'll never forget my first Simhat Torah as a married woman (I got married in Menahem Av), when many guests showed up just as I was about to light candles. The friendship and help (making sure I had everything I needed, which as an inexperienced housekeeper I wasn't too sure about, and I was pretty shy about asking) was invaluable. I think these 2 issues define what I would be looking for in an Ideal community. Shoshana ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stuart Wise <swise@...> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:41:59 -0800 Subject: Where would you like to live? Regarding a child's readiness to be left home alone. I was appalled to see how reckless in smaller communities are about sending their children out in the street alone. Many incidents of children being kidnapped or attacked don't happen among the hubbub of a big populated neighborhood. More often I hear of such incidents in quiet communities where a child walks alone to school, or plays outside alone, etc. I don't know why people are so trusting, especially since crime in the suburbs is on the rise while it dips in big cities. But I would hardly think 6 or 7 year old are old enough to be home alone and be able to deal with an emergency -- say, chas v'shalom, a fire, a burst pipe, a sibling or the child itself in distress. Things do happen, unfortunately; parents need to be responsible enough to anticipate the problems before something happens ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carl Singer <CARLSINGER@...> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 13:39:50 EST Subject: Where would you like to live? Rena brings up many interesting points in her reponse -- Carl Singer > Your address was from aol, so I assume you live in the States. Since I > live in Israel, I have a few suggestions that maybe you never thought of Yes, I've lived most of my life in the States -- and have lived in ten states long enough to get mail -- and in Jewish communities of various sizes and inclinations. > 1. How physically safe are my children there? Can they play out at the park > after dark or even just play outside unsupervised anytime? > > 2. Can we send the kids on the buses alone and can we leave our kids home > for awhile without fear that a stranger might knock on the door to do some > unspeakable damage? > > I can already tell you that every community in America fails those two > and every community I know of in Israel passes with flying colors. Interesting -- as only an occasional visitor to Israel, I thought (from ignorance) after reading the first two questions that you were going to mention dangers in Israel, not the U.S. -- it's interesting how the perception of safety is perhaps more important than the clinical reality. Much of America is unsafe, and it is difficult for Frum Jews to trek out to the prestine suburbs. > 3. How many shiurim are there for the balei batim? Every night, every other > night? For the women? Many, but never enough. > 4. Can I afford the schooling there that I want for my children? Do the > schools offer real tuition assistance, or must I declare bankruptcy to > afford them and their mandatory annual dinner fees? Tuition assistance is really a tax on those of us who work, subsidizing those who don't earn a good parnuseh. If, for example my child's school has 200 students and tuition is $5000 /per, but the operating budget is $600,000. Then the "real" numbers are $1,000,000 nominal tuition; $600,000 actual tuition, $400,000 in "scholarships" 120 parents pay $5,000, 80 pay $0. If all 200 paid then tuition would only be $3,000 per child -- I'm really paying $3000 tuition and $2000 scholarship. Since the Aybishter's given me a good income I can afford it it's no big deal from a money viewpoint, but really troublesome from a social viewpoint. We have scholarhips parents who buy $1,800 Sheitels, drive nice cars, spend summers in the mountains and don't pay tuition. Government funding of tuition (in the US) is a slippery slope with many plusses and many problems - not for this discussion. > 5. If I work, how far will I have to commute to work? Will it leave me > enough time to do all of the learning in shiurim and b'chavrusa that I > really want to accomplish? I work from home, and the time "gained" is thus put to good use, but not everyone is so fortunate. One pattern of American life seems to be time consuming commutes. > 6. If I am in kollel, is the community supportive of kollelniks? Will we be > able to afford education, medical care, etc. there? Why should I support kollelniks beyond a certain point / age. If they have rich parents, fine they can live in a Kollel 'til they're 120 -- but from a practical point of view, how do they enhance my community -- do they lead shuirrim for us balabatim, do I feel welcome if I choose to daven with them; do their wives babysit? Do they even say Good Shabbos to me when they see me on the street. There are exceptions, but many Kollel leyteh bring their Brooklyn Midos with them, or are taught the same by their Rebbeim, and everyone outside the Kollel is traif. It's a chuztpeh for someone who won't wish me a Good Shabbos to come knocking on my door every Yom Tov asking for gelt. I've become very choosy as to which Kollel's I support. > 7. Are there batei medrash sufficiently close to where I want to live? Good point -- but it's more than close (distance), is it "open" In Philadelphia where I once lived, I felt I could walk in to the Yeshiva Gedolah and sit down and open a sefer and inhale the learning. In other communities, I've felt like I'm in interloper to be stared at (who let him in here?), not even a prefunctory hello. > 8. Are there enough mikvaot and are they convenient to get to (not in the > worst area in town)? As Jews participated in "white flight" from the inner city, many had mikvehs in their former populations centers. Just about everywhere that I've lived new one have built -- fortunately as the community grows, the needs grow so we should all have the problem of mikvehs that are too crowded, shules that are overflowing, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hadassa Goldsmith <hbgold@...> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:52:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Where would you like to live? I feel that any community has the potential to be a nice place to live if one mitzvah is followed there. And that is the mitzvah of V'Ahavta L'Reyacha Kamocha - Love your neighbor as yourself. This 206th positive commandment is considered to be at the very foundation of our Torah. So any community that practices this mitzvah amongst ALL its inhabitants is certainly a good Torah community to live in. If you are interested in having your community focus on this mitzvah even more than it is doing now and therefore making it an even better place to live - and if, at the same time, you want to bring merit for a refuah shelaima (complete and speedy recovery) for cholim (the ill) in your community and in all Jewish communities around the world - please check out OPERATION REFUAH at www.operationrefuah.org Have a nice day! Hadassa Goldsmith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gitelle Rapoport <giteller@...> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:01:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Yehudit; Megillat Antiochus I have been reading a small Chanukah booklet -- halachot, tefillot, etc.-- that I received Mfrom a yeshiva in Far Rockaway, including the "Megillat Antiochus" and, within that, the particularly interesting passages the editors call "Ma'aseh Yehudit" (the act of Yehudit), about the daughter of Yochanan the Kohen Gadol who helped the Maccabees win the war against Syrian Greeks by attracting and then killing Antiochus' chief general. It's a very detailed, exciting story, which includes her prayers to Hashem for success, encouragement by the Jewish leaders, etc. Although I had heard of the story, of course, I had never read it in that detailed form. I understand that the Megillat Antiochus is read on Chanukah by some (Sephardic?) communities; it looks different to me from the Megillat Chashmonaim, although I don't have the latter immediately available. Does anyone have details about the origin of the "Megillah" and has anyone else seen the text, or the part about Yehudit, in either Hebrew or English? Chanukah sameach and Shabbat shalom, Gitelle Rapoport ----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Volume 30 Issue 33