Volume 31 Number 38
Produced: Sun Feb 6 11:00:34 US/Eastern 2000
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Disability and Shabbat - Thanks
[Sherman Family]
Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery (9)
[David Kaye, Carl M. Sherer, Michael Feldstein, Catherine S.
Perel, Josh Backon, David Charlap, Chaim Wasserman, Carl
SInger, A.J.Gilboa]
Jewish newspapers and Loshan Haroh
[Chaim Shapiro]
Saying 'I like ham but God forbade me' (3)
[Daniel Cohn, Mordechai, Ahron Wolf]
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From: Sherman Family <sherman@...>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:42:21 -0500
Subject: Disability and Shabbat - Thanks
Thank you so much, Aliza, and the other group members who wrote me
privately. Zomet was also recommended as a possibility. I'm now in
communication with people and awaiting answers. Be well.
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From: David Kaye <David.Kaye@...>
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:20:15 +0100
Subject: Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery
A poster asked about cosmetic surgery. Without going into too much
halachic detail, and notwithstanding the psak of HaRav HaGaon Rav
Eliezer Valdenburg (Tzitz Eliezer 11:41, where Rav Valdenburg's remarks
are quite similar to the posters) normative halacha does permit even
purely elective cosmetic surgery under certain conditions. See - Mishnah
Kesuvos 72b; Kesuvos 74; Tosafos Shabbos 50b s.v. bishvil; Minchas
Chinuch 48-2; Meiri Sanhedrin 84b; Shut. Mahari Aszod Y.D. 249;
Shut. Igros Moshe C.M. 2:66; Shut. Minchas Yitzchak 1:36-4, 6:105-2;
Shut. Shevet HaLevi 6:198; Shut. Chelkas Yaakov 3:11; Shut. Mishneh
Halachos 4:246, 247l; Aseh Lecha Rav 4:65
B'virkas HaTorah
Y. Dovid Kaye
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From: Carl M. Sherer <cmsherer@...>
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 13:17:06 +0200
Subject: Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery
R. Elan Adler writes:
> Can a Halachik Jew consider having cosmetic surgery? Is it halachically
> appropriate to alter the features which Hashem gave us?Does it show a
> lack of emunah if we vary aspects of what we were given? In our
> religious hashkafah, we believe that "kol mah d'avid Rachmana, l'tav
> avid," that all that Hashem gave us is for the good, and whatever he
> gave us, he gave for a reason. Perhaps the crooked nose or droopy eyelid
> was meant to be a kind of nisayon.
Although I do not have an answer to your question, I think it is worth
pointing out that not all cosmetic surgeries are the result of vanity
and a desire to look "better." Some cosmetic surgeries (the tongue
surgery commonly performed on Downs' Syndrome kids to make their tongues
a more normal size comes to mind) are actually more practical than
"cosmetic."
Carl M. Sherer
mailto:<cmsherer@...> or mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il
Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son, Baruch Yosef ben
Adina Batya among the sick of Israel. Thank you very much.
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From: Michael Feldstein <MIKE38CT@...>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:13:09 EST
Subject: Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery
Dear Rabbi Adler:
I seem to remember reading an article by J. David Bleich about the
halachic issues of cosmetic surgery. Although I don't have the article
in front of me, the crux of his argument--as I recall--is that if a
person's physical features is causing him or her psychological and/or
emotional pain, than he or she is halachically allowed to have cosmetic
surgery performed.
The other factor to consider, of course, is whether by undergoing
cosmetic surgery, one is putting oneself in unnecessary danger because
of the risks associated with surgery--a potential halachic issue.
I don't know what the p'sak halacha is on these issues, but I thought I
would share my recollections.
Sincerely,
Michael Feldstein
Stamford, CT
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From: Catherine S. Perel <tipper@...>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:22:37 -0600
Subject: Re: Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery
>From the first time I read the brachot thanking Hashem for making humans
in a variety of ways (disabled or some other blemish), I have hated it.
Nor have I ever used it; nor will I ever use it.
When we see people who are especially beautiful, we thank Him for
creating the world ith such beauty. (Rather brings up the question of a
beautiful person who is disabled, nu? Which bracha would/should be said
first? Can you say both?)
As Rabbi Adler states in his post of 31 January, it does nothing for our
embarassment save increase it; it does nothing for our shame, but
increase it; it does nothing for our self-worth to come before Hashem to
thank Him for a life which, in truth and with honesty, you pity us and
at the same time the words flow from your mouth, you are glad you are
not one of us.
I've heard from so many people, Jews and non-Jews alike, "There but for
the grace of G-d go I." To me, it says the same thing: I'm glad I'm not
disabled or otherwise oddly peculiar." If you knew the intense pain
this causes, I wonder if you would ever let those words pass your lips.
Why can we not say the same brachot for all we see: thanking Hashem for
the variety of all His creations?
Shabbat Shalom,
Catherine S. Perel
<perel@...>
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From: Josh Backon <BACKON@...>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:14 +0200
Subject: Re: Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery
The Nishmat Avraham (YD 155 #3, CM 420 #2) discusses the topic of
cosmetic plastic surgery for the purposes a *shidduch* or *shalom
bayit*. Those that permit include: Chelkat Yaakov Chelek Gimmel 11;
R. Moshe Feinstein in the sefer Halacha u'Refuah Vol. 1 p. 323 and in
Iggrot Moshe CM II 66). Those that forbid include: Minchat Yitzchak
Chelek Vav 105, Tzitz Eliezer Chelek Yud Alef 41 (if there is no disease
or pain). The question revolves around whether what the plastic surgeon
does is considered in the category of *chabala* [physical damage] or
not.
Josh Backon
<backon@...>
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From: David Charlap <shamino@...>
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:14:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery
This is definitely a case of CYLOR.
As far as I know, purely cosmetic surgery (for example, a beautiful
person who want the surgery purely out of vanity) is not generally
permitted.
On the other hand, reconstructive surgery is permitted. Halacha doesn't
make an accident victim live with a mangled face if he doesn't want to.
For cases in between, it's a gray area. I would assume that a rabbi
would have to decide on a case by case basis.
-- David
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From: Chaim Wasserman <Chaimwass@...>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:55:04 EST
Subject: Re: Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery
R, Elan Adler asks << Perhaps the crooked nose or droopy eyelid was meant to
be a kind of nisayon. >>
But what if such a situation will [a] impede breathing at the same time, or
[b] even worse, creat long term shidduch problems in a world that does not
take Shlomo haMelech's "sheker hachein vehevel hayofi" too seriously?!
chaim wasserman
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From: Carl SInger <CARLSINGER@...>
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 19:30:17 EST
Subject: Re: Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery
I'm not sure if this question should be asked from the outside looking
in or from the inside looking out. In other words, if I am the person
who has to make this decision, then I have to seek an halachik answer to
make an appropriate decision. If it's someone else (we're obviously
talking about an unrelated party, not a child, etc.) then it's none of
my business. If plony decides with the best medical and halachik advice
that life will be better if he or she gets her nose lengthened (or
perhaps shortened) my involvement should only be to support them with a
"you looked good before and you look even better now"
Personally, I have scars all over my back from being scalded as a child.
It's never bothered me, I hardly think about it unless I read in the
paper about someone who has been badly burned. (OK, it's on my back,
not on my face, so most people don't know.) But it's my decision, if I
want to do something about it and feel there is an halachik issue than
I'd discuss this with my Rabbi. .... and the opinion of others doesn't
count!!!
What if chas v' chalileh someone is has facial scars, either from an
accident or was born that way (does the source make a difference?) It's
up to them to deal with the issue and reach a decision. (halchik and
medical.) It's up to me to be supportive, not judgemental, especially
from an halachik viewpoint. (i.e., I can say that now her nose looks
like that of 6 other people who went to the same doctor :) -- but were
do I have standing to say that it may have been halachikly inappropriate
for her to get the "nose job"?
Carl A. Singer
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From: A.J.Gilboa <bfgilboa@...>
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 13:01:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery
But Rabbi, by your somewhat fatalistic argument, all surgery should be
forbidden except in a life-threatening situation. If the surgery in
question is ONLY needed to overcome some handicapping diability then, by
your suggestion, it should be prohibited.
What would you say about pain-killers, sinus-clearers and other such
medicaments? They ONLY make it easier for those who use them (I,
personally, rarely do) to function normally. Is it really appropriate to
tell these people to accept their discomfort as a "gift" from heaven?
In many cases, so-called "cosmetic surgery" is important to allow people
with physical features that prevent them from functioning normally in
society to undergo a psychological rebirth. This is not usually a matter
of mere vanity. It IS removal of an obstacle to becoming a fully
functioning member of society. In this sense, one might even view the
mitzva of mila (commandment of circumcision) as a form of cosmetic
surgery.
Shabbat Shalom,
Yosef Gilboa
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From: Chaim Shapiro <Dagoobster@...>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:20:40 EST
Subject: Jewish newspapers and Loshan Haroh
How do Orthodox Jewish newspapers excuse their use of Lashon Haroh
(gossip) against other Frum individuals who they disagree with solely on
political grounds?
Chaim Shapiro
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From: Daniel Cohn <dcohn@...>
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 13:44:26 +0100
Subject: Re: Saying 'I like ham but God forbade me'
>The ktav sofer compares the attitude of "i like ham but G-D forbade me"
>to those mitzvot that we are to develop our own innate recognition
>to. he says the difference between the two is that those mitzvot that
>the sechel(common sense) would dictate as desirable (i.e. forbidding
>adultery) or at the very least sensible-we are expected to acquire an
>instinct for, and the more we do, the more it demonstrates our
>refinement in character.
It is an historically proven fact that when people don't have an
absolute moral standard to rely on, things like adultery, homosexuality,
and fraud, which I suppose are under the definition of "mitzvot that the
sechel (common sense) would dictate as desirable" gradually become
socially acceptable. In that case, how do we define "common sense"? It
would seem that common sense is not so common and natural morality is
not so natural after all.
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From: Mordechai <Phyllostac@...>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:33:35 EST
Subject: Saying 'I like ham but God forbade me'
From: Esther Zar <ESTABESTAH@...>
<< the ktav sofer
compares the attitude of "i like ham but G-D forbade me" to those
mitzvot that we are to develop our own innate recognition to. he says
the difference between the two is that those mitzvot that the
sechel(common sense) would dictate as desirable (i.e. forbidding
adultery) or at the very least sensible-we are expected to acquire an
instinct for, and the more we do, the more it demonstrates our
refinement in character. however those G-D given mitzvot that we do not
know the reason for yet in this world (i.e. kashrut), for those we have
to have the attitude of 'efshi..' -of 'i like ham but G-D forbade
me". >>
This explanation does not originate with the Ksav Sofer. It is written
in the Ramba"m in his 'shmoneh prakim' (8 chapters) introduction to
Pirkei Avos, perek 6.
Mordechai
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From: Ahron Wolf <awolf@...>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:01:21 -0500
Subject: Saying 'I like ham but God forbade me'
RE:> From: Daniel Cohn <dcohn@...>
> I have always had trouble accepting this. For example, a man who is so
> in love which his wife that he cannot even think of being with another
> woman, is at fault, according to this dictum, and should strive to be
> attracted to other women, but, grudgingly, stick to his wife because
> the
The Rambam asks this question in his into to Pirkei Avos in his
commentary on the Mishna. He says that on the one hand our Sages say
that one who fights and conquers his material urges is superior to one
who intrinsically has no urge for the transgression and that saying 'I
like ham but God forbade me and so I wont eat it' is the more noble
attitude. Yet the philosophers point out that one who has no struggle
and does what's right naturally is more noble in his personality than
one who must fight his material inclinations. The Rambam answers that
the view of the philosophers is correct in regard to moral issues. For
instance one who has no inclination to steal is definitely on a higher
level than one who has this urge and needs to control it. The same with
the example of Daniel Cohen in the quote above. However when it is not a
moral issue, but is rather a prohibition that the Torah imposes on us in
order to teach us to control our physical drives like eating forbidden
foods, then one who overcomes his desire is more noble than one who has
no struggle. This is so because there is nothing intrinsically evil
about the urge since there is nothing intrinsically bad about the
action. The reason why it was forbidden is in order to train us to be
masters over our drives. Therefore one who masters the urge is greater
than one who does not have it at all in regards to these prohibitions.
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End of Volume 31 Issue 38
