Volume 56 Number 29
Produced: Mon Sep 1 5:57:02 EDT 2008
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Bechira Chofshis
[Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
Blogging and e-lists - creating a virtual community (3)
[Binyomin G Segal, Akiva Miller, Ari Trachtenberg]
Haredi haskafa
[Mordechai Horowitz]
A plurality of local customs (3)
[Mordechai Horowitz, Binyomin G Segal, Akiva Miller]
Prayer for the Country in UK
[Janice Gelb]
Value of this system
[Mordechai Horowitz]
Wearing Tzitzis at Night
[Akiva Miller]
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From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <sabbahillel@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:40:47 -0400
Subject: Bechira Chofshis
An interesting concept on bechiras chofshis appeared at
http://www.torahweb.org/torah/2008/parsha/rsch_reeh.html by Rabbi
Hershel Schachter. The idea is that "choice" really means picking from
a menu of possibilities. However, the Rambam seems to call it "reshus"
and speaks of it as a human being being able to create his own path
rather than just picking from the menu. The distinction seems to be
that a human being was created by Hashem with the capability in this
world to do what is analogous to the "yesh me'ayin" (creation from
nothing) that Hashem used to create the world.
Note that I said analogous as it is obvious that we are limited by the
rules that Hashem set up for this world.
Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz | Said the fox to the fish, "Join me ashore"
<SabbaHillel@...> | The fish are the Jews, Torah is our water
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7637/544/640/SabbaHillel.jpg
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From: Binyomin G Segal <bsegal@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:46:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Blogging and e-lists - creating a virtual community
My sense is that there is nothing else like MJ elsewhere on the
net. Blogs, especially the good ones, tend to focus on a particular
worldview. MJ has a diversity of scope and perspective unmatched
anywhere else (as far as I have seen). Your gentle mentoring has guided
many of us through discussions that would have been either less civil or
less open anywhere else.
I have looked elsewhere, but have sorely missed MJ and sincerely hope it
is truly back.
binyomin
To the WORLD, YOU may be ONE person; but to ONE person, YOU may be the WORLD
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From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 02:08:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Blogging and e-lists - creating a virtual community
Avi Feldblum wrote:
> Has the world of the blog-sphere rendered the email discussion list
> archaic? ... Today, there are more Jewish blogs out there than one can
> imagine or count. Is there still a place for mail-jewish? ... When I
> look at it, the thing that strikes me is that over the years I feal
> that we have built a true virtual community in the mail-jewish
> experience. I have skimmed some of the blogs, and I freely admit to be
> being a novice in that world, but I do not see the community aspect
> there.
Me, I'm not even a novice in the blogs. It's been several months since I
bothered to look at one. As I see it, a blog is not much different from
a columnist who writes on a regular basis for a magazine or
newspaper. Some are very well researched and written, while others are
trash. But even the best of them will vary their topic from week to
week, and any given topic is hit-or-miss on whether it interests
me. This results in close to zero loyalty for me to come back time after
time to see what they are writing. There are a couple of radio and
newspaper columns that interest me, but I don't buy the paper
specifically for the column; I read the column if I happen to reach that
page of the paper.
Blogging is a step below that. Anyone can start their own blog. It is a
soapbox for whatever they want to talk about. Even unpopular blogs will
continue if the author like to write about topics that he finds
interesting. Readers can post their comments, but it is very clear whose
turf it is. And if a reader wants to ask a question unrelated to the
topic, his only option is to start his own blog.
Mail-Jewish does have a moderator, but he does a good job of simply
keeping order, and making sure all the children behave. Beyond that, it
is a pretty egalitarian place. Within certain ground rules, anyone can
start a topic, and anyone can respond to a topic. Maybe that's what Avi
means by "community", maybe not. In any case, I just love it.
Thanks, Avi, for returning!
Akiva Miller
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From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:42:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Blogging and e-lists - creating a virtual community
> From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
> I'll leave this as an open-ended invitation to hear from the readership
> on what people think about email lists, blogs, does virtual community
> mean anything or any related topic.
Blogs are fundamentally different from a mailing-list like mail-jewish
in that their owner ultimately controls the content. Blogs are really
personal visions, upon which the world is invited to comment.
Mail-jewish content, on the other hand, is largely determined by the
readership. In that regard it is closer to a wiki ... with one
fundamental difference: a wiki aims to approach some true or ideal
representation in a fixed format; for mail-jewish, the aim is the
journey, the discussion.
On a personal note, mail-jewish has been my "rebbe" for a number of
years, the voices of a many intelligent wisened thoughts bouncing into
my mailbox on a regular basis, encouraging and often challenging me to
look deeply into the our sources.
Mail-jewish has been around longer than just about every other internet
communication medium that is still around, and it has coalesced an
amazingly diverse group of characters around it. This group of people
would never come together under ordinary circumstances ... and that is
what differentiates mail-jewish from everything else I have seen on the
net.
Ari Trachtenberg, Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten mailto:<trachten@...>
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From: Mordechai Horowitz <mordechai@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:05:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Haredi haskafa
Eric asks
> My question is, to what degree is Haredi haskafa, if I may use this
> term, based on misinformation, be it historical/linguistic/scientific,
> as opposed to an underlying world view?
I'll ask a stronger question. To what degree is halacha based on
misinformation as opposed to an underlying world view.
For example I learned it is OK to smoke of Yom Tov because smoking is
healthy.
The discussions of the various type of blood in the laws of Kashrut.
Or Gemorrah Nida and where babies come from.
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From: Mordechai Horowitz <mordechai@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:02:29 -0400
Subject: A plurality of local customs
Carl wrote
> I wanted to hear opinions / discussion not re: any specific minhag or
> custom that differs - but regarding how we as a diverse observant
> community might best go forward with the understanding that there is
> (often?) more than one "correct" minhag.
I think sadly to something I saw when I first went to a Baal Teshuva
yeshiva. I had some friends from Holland who followed that communities
minhag of only waiting 1 hour between meat and milk, which was the
custom of their Torah community. The Rabbis in the yeshiva who were not
Dutch Jews demanded they abandon it because it wasn't "really: their
custom.
We have allowed the yeshivot to take over and define Judaism as the
Judaism of the yeshiva rather than the Judaism of the community. It
goes hand in hand with the devaluation of the local Rabbi who is
replaced by the long distance Rosh Yeshiva.
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From: Binyomin G Segal <bsegal@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:18:05 -0500
Subject: Re: A plurality of local customs
Carl Singer asks:
> how we as a diverse observant community might best go forward with the
> understanding that there is (often?) more than one "correct" minhag.
I think Carl's question has two aspects: philosophical and practical.
The philosophical aspect of this question has troubled me deeply for the
past three years. To my understanding, early sources suggest that
diverse observance is NOT desirable or appropriate. It is acceptable
when it is inconspicuous. And under certain conditions it is the only
acceptable compromise of halachik ideals. Ideally, there should be a
single Torah for all of Israel.
In early halachik sources, the term "minhag avotenu" (our fathers'
custom) did not ever refer to biological parents, rather it referred to
the earlier generations of people from that place. There was no such
thing as a family minhag, rather minhag was a function of community. And
membership in community was geographically determined.
My impression is that, in general, when a person moved from one place to
another in preWW-Europe they were expected, as per the simple halacha,
to adopt the custom of the place to which they moved. With some notable
exceptions, this is clearly no longer the expectation, and it is hard to
understand the halachik justification for this change. It does seem
though that (dare I say) all poskim from the last generation or two have
accepted this new approach.
So from a practical perspective, given the wide acceptance of this
change, it seems entirely inappropriate to encourage anyone - passively
or actively - to diverge from their family's custom. As a teacher I try
very hard to be aware of different minhagim and often consult with
rabbis of different communal traditions to insure the accuracy of what I
teach.
binyomin
To the WORLD, YOU may be ONE person; but to ONE person, YOU may be the WORLD
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From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 02:22:35 GMT
Subject: Re: A plurality of local customs
Carl Singer wrote about an interview with Rabbi Marc Angel which can be
found that the Jewish Press website at
http://www.jewishpress.com/content.cfm?contentid=35537
The article describes that when Rabbi Angel was young, his teachers
taught certain things which *incorrectly* indicated that his father's
customs were wrong.
Carl asks:
> I wanted to hear opinions / discussion not re: any specific minhag or
> custom that differs - but regarding how we as a diverse observant
> community might best go forward with the understanding that there is
> (often?) more than one "correct" minhag.
When I read that article over Shabbos, I too felt badly about these
cases. But on the other hand, the way it is presented in the article,
the customs of Rabbi Angel's father, were in the small minority. Most
authorities indeed hold differently.
So although the customs were legitimate for people who hail from
particular areas, I think it is perfectly reasonable that the teacher
taught his class that they were wrong. How was he to know that there are
some esoteric authorities who sanction these practices? Most authorites
*don't* sanction them, and that's what he taught his students.
I do not know a solution to this problem. In an ideal world, I suppose
it would be best if all teachers knew all the myriad minority opinions
on all the halachos they teach, and if all individuals knew the sources
for all their family practices. But I think that's asking a bit much.
Akiva Miller
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From: Janice Gelb <j_gelb@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Prayer for the Country in UK
Dr. Howard Berlin <w3hb@...> wrote:
> As many times as I have been in the UK, I have, sad to say, never been
> to shabbat services in London. Does anyone know if the prayer for the
> country mentions the Queen (Elizabeth II) by name?
It does, or at least it did when I was at services in Glasgow in
1999. Not only did it mention the Queen, the siddur named the entire
royal family. I always wondered what happened when Charles and Diana got
divorced -- did shuls paste over the names with a new set? I look
forward to hearing from actual UK residents.
-- Janice
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From: Mordechai Horowitz <mordechai@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:58:49 -0400
Subject: Value of this system
Avi Feldblum wrote:
> So I am back, but some of the underlying question still remains. Has
> the world of the blog-sphere rendered the email discussion list
> archaic?
Two answers
Email lists are more interactive than most blogs that are really monologues
This is one of the most intelligent discussion lists out there that I
consider real learning.
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From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 02:37:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Wearing Tzitzis at Night
Aviva Skurowitz asked:
> If a man put on his tzizis in the morning, says the bracha then takes
> his tzizis off when it gets dark (to shower or for whatever reason)
> and then he gets dressed to go out (at night) should he put the tzizis
> back on in order to go out. What is the halacha l'ma'aseh for this? If
> he does put them back on is he "oveir" on anything?
Rav Moshe Feinstein (in Igros Moshe Yoreh Deah 2:137) says that in such
a case there is no prohibition to put them on, and there is also no need
to put them on, and not even a "hidur" (praiseworthiness) to put them
on.
He also says that a regular tallis, on the other hand, should *not* be
put on at night, lest he accidentally say the bracha (which is said only
during the day, and not at night). This makes me wonder what he would
say about a single man who does not have a regular tallis, and is in the
habit of saying a bracha on the tzitzis when he puts them on -- perhaps
such a person should *not* put them back on at night?
Akiva Miller
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End of Volume 56 Issue 29
